Monday, June 30, 2014

Apart From Cassation’s Unyielding Mandate, More Problems With The Belated Sollecito/Bongiorno U-Turn

Posted by Our Main Posters

1. The Appeal’s Grounds For Separation

That bizarre infatuation of Bongiorno’s with Knox as Jessica Rabbit is clearly long-gone.

Now the poor boy was home alone and the absent Miss Rabbit had reason and opportunity. Tiziano posted these ten translated points from the new Sollecito appeal to Cassation, which seems to have the highly nervous Knox camp’s tongues tied.

Among the numerous flaws the proceedings appealed against present, the one linked to the claimed impossibility of differentiating between the two accused stands out.

On this point the Appeal Court denied any in-depth analysis at all of the individual roles - an investigation urged by the defence - avoiding taking any position about alternative constructive hypotheses.

10 points are enumerated by the defence in this regard:

- AK’s memorial referring to events at via della Pergola was in the singular

- AK reported receiving SMS not to go to work from Lumumba, but went out just the same

- AK admitted having lied to RS

- RS did not calumny anyone: the accusation against PL was never confirmed by RS

- AK in her memorial positioned only herself at the crime scene at the time of the scream

- only AK’s blood was on the knife blade

- no mixed traces RS/MK were found and highlighted by luminol in the house

- Quintavalle claimed to have seen AK the morning of November 2nd, not RS

- RS did not know RG and had no reason for wanting MK’s death

- the alleged bad relations and the question of disappearance of money regarded only MK and AK

2, Popper Explains Why They Will Go Nowhere

Popper the highly informed Italian commenter on TJMK and PMF has explained on a previous post why this will fall on deaf ears in Cassation.

if RS said something he has not said before it would make no difference now. No more evidence can be admitted at the trial.

Fase istruttoria is over as judgement of merit.  Cassazione can only respond on points appealed and they must be points of law otherwise they are not admissible. Defendants do not talk in hearing.

Once they are convicted, for example, if he had new information on the case and new evidence that proved (in a convincing way) he is not guilty, he could ask for revisione, basically a review of the trial.

He clearly has nothing to say though ... if he said she went out, judges knew that already. If he said that night he was in Milan and could prove it conclusively, that could trigger a review of a final sentence.

We are clearly talking in theory, no such thing will happen.

3. Could The 10 Points Have Worked Previously?

If Judge Nencini was still in the saddle could the ten points have had merit?

Our continuing Interrogation Hoax series has been hammering on the fact that on 5-6 November 2007 quite unpressured Knox herself did state that she went out alone without Sollecito on the night Meredith was murdered. 

But these ten cherrypicked points above and a claim that RS was not even at Meredith’s house that night are self-destroying over-reach. They would not have caused a win or partial win for Sollecito. Not one of them stands up as a get-out-of-jail-free card upon close readings of the reports of Judge Massei and Judge Nencini.

The lower courts did NOT deny analysis of the individual roles - the two themselves opted to be tried together, while Rudy Guede, fearing two snakes, chose to be tried separately.

WHEN did the defense urge investigation of their differing roles? What did the Massei trial court miss? It had many months of the sight of Sollecito - sitting there sulky, saying little, not taking the stand. Yes, not assisting Jessica Rabbit with an alibi, but that was not so obvious.

The wounds on Meredith and the evidence points in Meredith’s room point overwhelmingly to three attackers. They prove the use of two knives from opposite sides. It was Sollecito’s knife that was used for the fatal blow; that remains unshaken - actually, more confirmed by the Carabinieri.

See Ergon on the implacable knife evidence. Sollecito was the knife fetishist, and the one who was already into the cocaine or crystal meth that Knox was probably on judging by her telling smell the next day, her bizarre behaviors through the week following, and her odd money trail.

See the implacable evidence against him on the bathmat by SomeAlibi and Yummi.  That footprint had to have been imprinted within a few minutes of the end of the attack on Meredith.

After the hijacked Hellmann appeal in 2011 Sollecito was deeply craven to Knox and her family and entourage on the US west coast. Craven to the extent that his own family (which despises the Knox-Mellases and blames Knox for his predicament and their lost name and enormous expenses) once hurriedly hopped on an aircraft to Seattle to enforce their separation.

Sollecito’s hapless book-agent Sharlene Martin and shadow-writer Andrew Gumbel both live on the West Coast and Knox’s radioactive FOA obviously provided most of the malicious fantasy that constitutes his defamatory book.

Playing chicken with the Italian justice system is notoriously suicidal. The crazy aggression of the Prestons, Fischers and Moores did not help Sollecito at all at the Nencini appeal (though it helped Knox even less - she got handed the longer sentence.)

The gods-in-their-own-minds in the FOA got Sollecito no US job and no US viza. The email to Judge Nencini and the appeal to ECHR and the promised fight against extradition for Knox are to him merely insults, and attempts to separate Knox off.

So, back in Italy, he is confused, let-down, disgruntled, and loaded for bear. Knox was the loose canon in 2007, Sollecito is the loose canon now.

Here is a key exchange between our main posters SeekingUnderstanding and Hopeful from previous threads.

4. Take On RS Now By SeekingUnderstanding

[t does seem so very sad and frustrating that Raphaele did not open the window of opportunity, as Judge Nencini tried to nudge him to do, just before Christmas.

He is less easy to read than Ms. Knox , for a number of reasons - more introverted, less articulate (certainly in English; but he also doesn’t seem expressive in his own language), and because of the psychology itself.

You may remember I suggested AK finds it unbearable to acknowledge her darker side, to own her projections; unbearable to be thought of as ‘a monster’, to be unlovable, or indeed hated by people. This may be a strong component in her lying.

I believe Raphaele also finds things unbearable, but whereas Amanda appears to turn this unbearable feeling into lashing out to others, - I think in Raphaele, he finds himself and ‘what has happened to him’ (passive aggression) unbearable. His judgement has not only been poor, but catastrophically poor, - and he must know this. One wonders why the self-destruct.

He knows his life is ruined, and he knows his appalling judgement was instrumental. He truly doesn’t have confidence in himself, but bluffs anyway. His ‘ex’, by contrast,has too much. If only she could have self-doubt, and feel shame.

He is not unintelligent, by no means, yet his choices and decisions at times have seemed near idiotically stupid. So there must be something else going on, something deep in his psyche that causes such confusion in his mental and emotional universe.

He seems unable to organize his emotions. He appears to want or expect or need a woman to ‘sort them out’ (sort him out). His relationship with his mother would probably reveal the source of this. How did she manage her emotions? Or did they rule her? . These are the sort of questions I might be asking. He seems overwhelmed, swallowed up by the juggernaut that AK set in motion.

Was his mother easily overwhelmed by life’s problems? Something has gone wrong (drastically) with a healthy model for his ‘anima’.

Where Amanda is the arch manipulator, he is highly manipulable. He seems to copy. Like her, his self-identity is weak, but for different reasons. Drug use, I would suggest, has been both crucial and disastrous for his mind. From this point of view, prison will be a constructive environment for him, (as AK too). Perhaps without the distorting and illusory aspects of drugs he might begin, over many years, to experience true spiritual (and therefore moral) issues.

I always think drugs give a delusion of spiritual experience (‘the highs’),  - wanting them can be (for an introvert) indicative of longing for something more spiritual, but using them will actually prevent such an experience, emphatically.

So then there is bitterness and emptiness, as well as despair and, still, confusion. Thus the addiction which starts as a cycle in the mind.

I knew a psychologist who worked with highly motivated and successful people in the Arts - people who would have burn out, creativity, and performance issues. He was extremely clever. But he was adamant that there had to be a hierarchy for dealing with problems.

That is to say, if someone was using drugs and/or alcohol to the point of misuse (extremely common in the performing arts), - this problem had to be mastered and dealt with FIRST, before anything else could even be addressed. This may seem irrelevant (as Sollecito hasn’t shown he is creative), - but I would
say the signs are that his past (and current?) drug use needs to be sorted before anything else can possibly be.

Such a destructive shame that this has all dragged on for 7years.

I don’t think he has any idea as to how to give a ‘press conference’ - even supposing , by a miracle, he was going to tell the unadulterated truth. He is way out of his depth. I doubt he has sufficient communication skills in his own language, let alone In English for the American media.

5. And The Take Of Hopeful On RS Now

As he is back in the spotlight for the July 1 press conference, your observations about him are timely. He does seem more introverted than Knox, and less articulate. Correct me if I misinterpret what you said about him, that rather than lash out at others aggressively like Knox does to disperse and blame others for her awful feelings about her dark side, Sollecito does the opposite and feels the weight of shame but turns the unbearable feelings inward. He is poster child for passive-aggressive.

I also believe he does have a sense of deep loyalty and faithfulness to his family, since his father has never abandoned him nor did his mother. He has misplaced loyalties at times, and combines a stubborn streak with false sense of need to persevere after he has made wrong steps.

This comment is mainly a review of what you conclude about Raf, but bears repeating. He is ashamed of his “catastrophically bad judgment.” I agree, his pride is wounded, his vanity more than his love for Knox.

I believe Raffaele sincerely regrets what he realizes he has done to his own family, but still can’t quite confess it. Maybe part of him is sorry but part of him is secretly glad he is controlling his father’s destiny, in punitive action for divorcing his mother. He also sent his sister’s career down the cliff. His sister is really to blame for that so with true passive-aggressive deceptiveness he can hide his responsibility for it while causing it.

His wanky emotions have made a trainwreck of his intelligence and caused him to do “idiotically stupid” things and self-destruct.

His drug use to relieve inner confusion caused by lack of self-identity is a coping method that does more harm than good. His patience is more of a drug stupor that makes him slow to act, than real gritted teeth patience, which may be why we’ve waited this long (6 years) for him to reveal the truth about Knox.

He stayed in a cloud of marijuana until she came along. She liked the drugs, too. He allowed her to set the course of his life because he needed or wanted a woman to sort out his emotions. Maybe he was competing with dad with a new hot blondie, too. He didn’t fathom that Knox would become so extreme and so terrifying.

He underestimated Knox, and she saw she could manipulate and destroy him with one hand tied behind her back. She reveled in the besotted weakling, and she felt superiority over Guede too, and soon despised them both. She wouldn’t fall into some darkened room or quiet void of depression like Raffaele’s mom had done giving up on life. The insulated quiet Italian boy raised scrupulously did not see that with Knox he would be “swallowed up in the juggernaut AK set in motion”. He wanted her power and excited vision, but he couldn’t understand her mental illness that went with it. Love is blind.

As long as he could blame her and not himself maybe he was OK with it, especially with drugs to dull the pain, until he felt the full impact of her punishment and years later her treachery. Finally he grew a brain and saw it was Knox who betrayed him, not vice versa. Maybe the press conference is to set that straight.

His drug use got him through much of his first year of prison when he lost all sense of time and space. He was a basketcase. He probably used meds his last 3 years behind bars as well. Perhaps Dr. Sollecito saw that his son got legal prescriptions for him, maybe even purchasing prison favors that way, who knows?

Maybe Knox scoffed at Raf’s crutch, and she continued to compete with him behind bars. She scoffed at her mom for taking antidepressants. Knox had no room to talk as she herself was reportedly a massive drug user at UW and in Italy found a job where liquor flowed.

Has Raf continued the drug use? Does Greta his new girlfriend use drugs? Or has he sworn them off motivated by anger and determination to clear his head for his legal fight?

The concept of “anima” is unknown to me, although the term is familiar. I will research it online, thank you. Your insights are always valuable, thank you for sharing them. Thanks for educating us in the short comment format which can’t do justice to your full knowledge of the subject, but does shed a lot of light and points the way.

Raffaele’s mother and her sad demise seem to be at the root of her son’s depression. Raf has lack of confidence and the need to bluff where he feels no real power. He and Knox are still learning tricks from each other.

I think Knox may have been a father-figure to him in a twisted way, because Amanda is energetic and adventurous and for a short while in Perugia seemed to have it all together and be a hard worker like his dad. Raf met Knox at the peak of her exhileration with her new life in Italy. Like a drug high, it might not have lasted. He was completely deceived.

He may have felt he could never compete with his older sister who might have seemed to him like Amanda and his dad: energetic, capable, feet on ground. This is probably what Raf needs in his life.

Raf commented on Knox living life as if in a dream, there was no reality in her mind, she lived only for pleasure. Maybe he did not like this side of her. This was his wakeup call and he spoke about it openly because it was something he didn’t like, having thought at first glance she was a strong American. He didn’t know whether to attribute her odd mental impracticality to her nationality, her genetics, her femaleness, or her unknown religious upbringing. He had no clue, and maybe it even made him feel stronger and more grounded by comparison since he had formerly thought of himself as a tetherless dreamer but he didn’t want another spaced out confused dreamer like himself for a partner and was having second thoughts. He preferred her rough kick-butt side. She was the brother he never had, a wild West type, a cowboy to climb trees with and roam the range, the key to a new country after his launch to Munich didn’t work out.

In early childhood Raf maybe got labeled or saw himself as “slow” or “dumb” and began to live a self-fulfilling prophecy. He might have felt misunderstood knowing that he did have a lot of intelligence, but that he did not have the same personality as his dad or sis, and not wanting to be equated with his pushed aside mom. He must have felt very alone.

He also may be carrying a lot of shame about his MPD Psycho habit and his secret fantasy life of violence.

Raffaele may have been turned off yet partly tantalized by his father’s profession. A doctor sees a lot of blood and gruesome things with the body.

Raffaele may hero worship a father who can face such grotesque things without wincing, and a sister who had power with the police and saw crime victims.

You mention the Arts and a psychologist who treated performers with burnout and creative types who needed help or a life coach. Maybe Raffaele does see himself as more that artsy type of person, someone wanting to create computer games, sci-fi fantasy, or be an “Experience Teller”. He did write a book, so maybe he does fall into the category of artistic temperament, which often needs a guide or an infusion of stiffened backbone to face the realities of life in a business sense.

Knox seems to be struggling with math, yet her mom is a math teacher and her dad an accountant.


Tiziano, thanks for the simplified list of 10 points that Raf is using for his last ditch appeal. If he had separated his defense a long time ago using these points, he might have already been out on work-release with millions$ still.

Thanks also to TJMK Main Posters. We are now seeing headlines in other media screaming “Sollecito Abandons Knox”. That’s right, kick her to the curb baby, cut the ties that are strangling the truth. Guede “fearing two snakes” was the only wise one of the three when he took fast track and paid his debts to society.

I learn so much from TJMK posts and the dialogue and artwork on sisters PMF. The world has opened up for me a lot through their portals of wisdom, not only about legal matters in the Meredith Case but other things. Peter Quennell’s incredible background of world knowledge and U.N. career, his grasp of the facts and the legal universe have powered this site to prominence with real results for Meredith.

On I enjoy Catnip and SomeAlibi and Pictor and Ergon and Michael and dozens more on .org. I see videos of horses splashing in kiddie pools and I rush off to swim. Thanks, Bard.

I print out special posts and TJMK comments and add them to my scrapbooks such as Catnip’s 12/15/10 post about Trim the cat who sailed around Australia and a poem by his owner Matthew Flinders. Blue glitter stickers spell TRIM with a cat photo in pink scrapbook.

I framed a print of a PMF white cockatoo on the shoulder of a girl, which balances a white cockatoo oil on my green wall. I like Michael’s white cat seeming to laugh at a sweet joke behind one shy paw.

Music attachments and scenes of Italy have been edifying and often soothing. I’m awed by the many talents on TJMK and PMF, grateful to see their gifts in action. I printed out many of the tigers and lions on PMF art gallery and the Mexican woman with sunflowers; also poems and photos from TJMK. My scrapbooks are overflowing. I’m also belatedly learning about Carl Jung and the “anima”.

These sites bring learning, pleasure, and vicarious friendship and maybe a needed dose of tolerance in my outlook. Most of all is the dynamic advocacy for justice. Thanks to all, named and unnamed.

Posted by Hopeful on 06/30/14 at 07:57 PM | #

” Defamation case against parents of #amandaknox moved from Perugia to Florence…..”

Read the latest update by journalist Andrea Vogt,

Posted by True North on 07/01/14 at 02:33 AM | #

It seems someone close to Sollecito is doing their utmost to discredit Amanda Knox in the media. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a story about Knox being caught in an alleged cocaine scandal breaks on the same day Sollecito holds a press conference:

Amanda Knox Caught In Alleged Cocaine Scandal — Will Drug Allegations Crush Her Bid For An Appeal In Meredith Kercher Murder Case?

Posted by The Machine on 07/01/14 at 01:07 PM | #

David Marriott won’t enjoy reading this article:

Raffaele Sollecito switches defence strategy to potentially incriminate Knox

Posted by The Machine on 07/01/14 at 02:02 PM | #

Analysis of the non-event, and was anything more of a non-surprise?

“I and my family believe Amanda Knox is not pregnant, but if she is, I’m not the father, as Rudy Guede is my witness”. What a cock up.

Posted by Ergon on 07/01/14 at 02:22 PM | #

Hi Machine

On the cocaine story. Hmmm! Is that really you trying to give Knox a break there? Why did the cocaine report have to be engineered by Sollecito forces?

We know of a lot of new-look investigations going on now, and I think we should encourage new reports and not suggest conspiracies behind them.

And actually that digging into cocaine is dangerous for Sollecito also; the idea that she used it and he didnt is laughable.

The cops pretty well all knew Knox was on cocaine because of her smell of cat-urine, a strong indicator, outside the house the day after.

Not such a big deal in Perugia then, and Mignini had said enough on that to make the prosecution’s case. Knox admitted she was at leat on hash after denying it.

it was for the defense to make something of it in a “diminished capacity” defense if they wanted to. ut of coutrse under Curt Knox’s angry hard line they couldnt.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 07/01/14 at 02:40 PM | #

Why has this press conference been called and what do Sollecito and his lawyers possibly hope to achieve by it?

He remained silent in court for years on advice from his counsel but yet calls this press conference with their apparent go-ahead.

At the end of the day he has said almost nothing -and most of the ‘nothing’ he said, he has previously said anyway.

He mentioned in a TV interview earlier this year that he had questions that remained “unanswered” from the time regarding the behaviour of his co accused Amanda Knox - he questioned her taking a shower in the blood splattered crime scene and remarked that she was “agitated” when she supposedly returned to his apartment, yet he still maintains he “can’t remember” chunks of the evening of the murder, at several key times.

Wow, that must have been some heavy stuff he was taking along with Amanda Knox at the time they murdered Meredith Kercher, and it looks like he is still seeing things in “flashes of blurred images” too, in tandem with his cohort.

It comes as no surprise that money is becoming an issue now, with the recent reports of Knox drawing more than 3 times the amount of dollars from her bank that anyone would normally need for day to day expenses at the time they killed Meredith Kercher, and the cocaine dealer (who was imprisoned as a result of the police finding his number on her phone)that Knox called before and after the murder, to the forefront.

This in itself pours huge scorn on her biological parents and stepfathers claims that their daughter did not need any money, and exposes the fact that they actually didn’t really know their daughter or was wilfully negligent in allowing her to go overseas unsupervised.

Posted by DF2K on 07/01/14 at 02:50 PM | #

Teasing the Knoxii here:

Posted by Ergon on 07/01/14 at 04:27 PM | #

If it’s of interest, both the Times and the Telegraph (in the UK ), have prominent articles on their front pages, on-line, with Sollecito withdrawing his alibi for Knox.

It may not be news for us, but will be for some people still accepting of the superficial story from the Knox machine.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 07/01/14 at 07:27 PM | #

Sollecito has damaged Knox by pointing out that she lied and that she wasn’t at his apartment the entire evening. This has been picked up by many mainstream media organisations in Britain and America.

Posted by The Machine on 07/01/14 at 09:32 PM | #

Hi TM,

I agree that Sollecito has damaged Knox, but only in the sense that at last, it is being picked up by many mainstream media organisations.

It is not as if he hasn’t said this already - as he ‘coughed’ and said the very same thing on the night they was both arrested when after having it pointed out to him the calls he made to the police were made after the postal police had arrived at the crimescene.

It is laughable that the ever desperate Bongiorno now seems to be splitting hairs by stating that evening is a separate entity than the night.Good luck on that one…

However in my opinion it is all a lost cause, as whether it was evening or night or whatever they want to call it, or wherever they say he was, it does not exonerate him from the fact that there is a copious amount of his DNA on Meredith Kerchers underwear, an almost perfect bare footprint of his in the bathroom in Meredith Kerchers blood and that the fact that he lied in saying that the reason Meredith Kerchers DNA was on the murder weapon found in his kitchen was because he pricked her whilst cooking and “moving around” with a knife in his hand.

These are things that of course were not mentioned in his press conference and I am still mystified (given these facts) why they called one in the first place.

Perhaps it is more a question of dragging Amanda Knox down with him rather than exonerating himself?

Posted by DF2K on 07/01/14 at 11:06 PM | #

certainly took him long enough—

Posted by mojo on 07/02/14 at 07:12 AM | #
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