Monday, October 13, 2014

Knox, Tied In Knots By Her Own Tongue: Translation Of The 17 Dec 2007 Interview With Dr Mignini #2

Posted by Yummi, Catnip and Kristeva



Prominent Rome criminal lawyer Dr Giancarlo Costa who walked off the Knox team soon after this

1. Getting Up To Speed On This Second Post

How much serious questioning was Knox subjected to prior to this voluntary interview six weeks after her arrest?

In fact, none. In the early days of November, after Meredith was found dead, she had several less-formal “recap/summary” sessions with investigators on possible leads (as did many others), which the defenses conceded without argument at trial were simply that and no more.

So these were the first serious questions put to Knox - politely, and Knox is essentially not argumentative throughout

The transcript was in the evidence pile and all judges except Hellmann seem to have studied it hard. This was also the first-ever interview of Knox by Dr Mignini, as prosecutor appointed to the case. He had seen her twice at the house and heard her at her strong insistence early on 6 November.

But they had never before really talked.

Prior to this, Knox had already emanated over a dozen differing versions of what she wanted to claim took place and the police and prosecutors and Supervising Magistrate Claudia Matteini had tried to make sense of those. 

2. Our Translation Of Approximately The Second 40 Minutes

This is the second 40 minutes of the voluntary interview which lasted in total about three hours. For a full understanding it would really be best to read first our first post and its insightful comment thread before tackling this.

Transcript of Interview 17 December 2007: Statement of interview Of Ms Amanda Knox (cont)

PM Mignini: Listen when you did you find out that Ms Romanelli and Ms Mezzetti would not have been there? Ms Romanelli, Laura and Filomena…

Knox: I discovered it when I had called Filomena on the morning of the second.

Interpreter: On the morning of the second when Amanda had called Filomena, she had found out that she had not been…

PM Mignini: And about Laura, did you know?

Knox: Filomena had told me that Laura was in Rome

Interpreter: Now then that morning of the 2nd of November Filomena had said to Amanda that Laura was in Rome.
(interruption of recording)

PM Mignini: Now then at this point the recording resumes at 11:50 am and I repeat the question, what did you do on the afternoon of the 1st of November and during that night between the 1st and the 2nd? Oh and the morning of the 2nd obviously.

[29]

Knox: When I had woken up in the morning I was at Raffaele’s house, the 1st of November, and I went to my house to have a shower to change myself, I had already spoken to Raffaele and he had said to me that he would have come over to my place, when he would have woken and everything… So what I did was that I studied and then I put away my linens [whites]…

Interpreter: The morning of the 1st of November, so that night she had slept at Raffaele’s house

PM Mignini: The night between the 31st and the 1st?

Interpreter: Yes, in the morning she had woken up at Raffaele’s, after which she’d gone, gone back to her house to have a shower, change her clothes in expectation that Raffaele would meet up with her. In expectation that Raffaele would meet up with her she set herself to studying, to washing her clothes, and to put the clothes away

PM Mignini: And then?

Knox: While I was there in the kitchen studying and while I was in the kitchen Filomena came back home with her boyfriend, Marco, and they had wrapped a present and they got ready very quickly for a party to which they had to go and I had continued to study and I had helped them to wrap the present with Marco and when they’d left I’d continued to study.

Interpreter: She was studying, they’d only returned for a bit the housemate Filomena with her boyfriend who set themselves to wrapping a present that was going to be for a party. And she had helped them, she was studying in the kitchen and she helped get the present ready and then…

PM Mignini: Was Meredith there?

Knox: Meredith was sleeping

PM Mignini: In that moment…

Interpreter: She was sleeping

[30]

PM Mignini: Ah she was sleeping

Interpreter: Yes

PM Mignini: Ah… then go on

Interpreter: Then after the couple, Filomena and her boyfriend, had gone out, and she continued to study.

Knox: While I was studying, Meredith had woken up and I think she went to the bathroom first and then she came to say hello and she sat down to have breakfast. And we had chatted while I was studying…

Interpreter: Then while she was still at studying in the kitchen Meredith woke up, she went to the bathroom first and then into the kitchen

PM Mignini: At what time? … at what time?

Knox: I think around midday

Interpreter: I believe around midday and then Meredith had joined her in the kitchen to have breakfast and they had exchanged chitchat about the night before

PM Mignini: Was Sollecito there as well?

Knox: No, not yet

Interpreter: No, not yet

PM Mignini: There wasn’t… and then? Go on if…

Knox: We had spoken about Halloween she’d given me some advice about young men and went to have a shower and while she was having a shower I had thought about what to prepare for lunch, because I was starting to feel hungry… I pulled out some things for lunch and that is bread and cheese… then Raffaele arrived and while all this was happening Meredith was under the shower or in her room getting dressed. After Raffaele arrived he got some pasta ready,

[31]

...I believe for lunch while we were eating together Meredith had entered and had either put in, or taken out clothes from, the washing machine, she said hello to him and had gone back into her room…

Interpreter: Now then, Meredith was in the kitchen having breakfast with Amanda they chatted a bit after which Meredith had gone to have a shower and get dressed. In the meantime Amanda who was starting to get hungry had thought about what to prepare for lunch had taken out bread and cheese and Raffaele had also arrived who had set himself to cooking some pasta, it seems to her, for lunch. In the meantime Meredith was still either in the shower or getting dressed. And while Meredith had returned, while they were eating lunch, she’d returned to take her clothes from the washing machine.

PM Mignini: She’d eaten with them?

Knox: No, she had just had breakfast

Interpreter: No, she had just had breakfast

PM Mignini: Please go on

Knox: After Raffaele had eaten, I felt like playing the guitar for a while and Raffaele sat himself down to listen to me… and in all this time Meredith had returned, she had dressed and everything she had gone to the door and she had said “Buona giornata” [have a good day] to us. I remained at home with Raffaele playing the guitar and singing a bit and around five I hadn’t looked at the clock but I believe it might have been five we’d decided to return to his house.

Interpreter: Now then, after lunch Amanda and Raffaele set about playing the guitar and in the meantime Meredith had left the house with a greeting to them. It seems to her that they stayed home playing the guitar until around five in the afternoon when they’d gone instead to Raffaele’s house.

[32]

PM Mignini: Just a moment, before going on. When you both had saluted Meredith, did Meredith tell you where she was going? And at what time would she be back?

Knox: No

Interpreter: No

PM Mignini: Go on

Knox: At Raffaele’s house we made ourselves comfortable and I sat at the computer to find songs that I wanted to learn to play on the guitar and in the meantime I know that Raffaele had gone to the bathroom, I was at the computer transcribing songs from the Internet it’s difficult to say what happened first, but what happened was that while I was using the computer a friend of Raffaele’s arrived to ask if she could use his car. She was speaking Italian very quickly and so I don’t know what they said to each other. When Raffaele was in the bathroom the doorbell rang and I let this girl in, and Raffaele came out of the bathroom to meet her.

Interpreter: At Raffaele’s house Amanda searched for songs, music on the computer to play on the guitar in the meantime Raffaele had gone to the bathroom. While Raffaele was in the bathroom a friend of Raffaele’s rang the doorbell to whom Amanda had opened the door and afterwards this friend of Raffaele’s had spoken with Raffaele and it seems to her that this friend had asked him if she could borrow his car.

PM Mignini: Yes, before going further. At Raffaele Sollecito’s house in the bathroom, right? In Raffaele Sollecito’s bathroom is there a shower?

Knox: Yes

Interpreter: Yes

PM Mignini: Have you had showers at Sollecito’s house?

[33]

Knox: Yes

Interpreter: Yes

PM Mignini: Oh, go on yes

Knox: After having used the computer I grabbed, I read Harry Potter in German, I gave him the Harry Potter book while he was in the bathroom, but he didn’t understand it, so after we sat ourselves down and I was reading from it to him and I was translating for him and then let’s think about what else did we do… We watched the film Amelie a message from Patrick arrived and in response to the message I said to him, I wished him a good evening and that I would see him again later when he would be… Patrick told me that I didn’t need to go to work because… he told me that in Italian but I believe the message was “there aren’t many people, there’s no need that you come to work”…

Interpreter: Afterwards since Amanda is studying German and Raffaele also wants to learn Amanda has a Harry Potter book in German that they were reading together, trying to translate it together. Afterwards they had watched the film Amelie.

PM Mignini: At what time?

Knox: I don’t remember the time exactly… sorry.

Interpreter: She doesn’t remember

PM Mignini: Doesn’t she remember, the film?

Interpreter: Amelie it’s called yes, so Patrick had sent a message in Italian but…

PM Mignini: And what did this message say?

Interpreter: That there weren’t many people that there was no need that she come to work

PM Mignini: That is he said exactly this. At what time did you receive it?

[34]

Knox: I hadn’t looked at the clock

Interpreter: She hadn’t looked at the clock

PM Mignini: After the film or before?

Knox: I don’t remember

Interpreter: I don’t know

PM Mignini: Did Sollecito see this… did he know about it, or else… did he become aware of this message?

Knox: He hadn’t seen it but when I read it I said, “Wow! I don’t have to go to work!”

Interpreter: He hadn’t seen it although she informed him that she didn’t need to go to work and that she was happy so…

PM Mignini: And then?

Interpreter: And then she had responded to Patrick saying “ci vediamo più tardi” [we’ll meet up later]

PM Mignini: Meaning? How did you answer in text precisely?

Knox: My message in English but I wrote it in Italian, what I was trying to say was “ci rivediamo e buona serata” [see you later and have a good evening]… that is “ci rivediamo e buona serata”…

Interpreter: Now then two things. One thing is that she wrote in Italian and another thing what she wanted to say in English. In English what she was thinking of wanting to say was “ci vediamo dopo buona serata intanto” [see you later have a good evening in the meantime] and instead she had written in Italian “ci vediamo buona serata” [let’s meet up have a good evening]

Lawyer: She had written the same thing that it also means in English. She had translated the same thing, I don’t know if she had said the same thing..

Knox: I’m saying to you in English what I wanted to say but I’ve told you I wrote it in Italian

[35]

PM Mignini: Make me understand then, excuse me a moment, he sends a message, an SMS, this message says “there’s only a few people don’t come. Don’t come tonight”

Interpreter: Don’t come to work.

PP Mignini: Don’t come to work. This had never happened before we’ve seen.

Knox: No

Interpreter: No the first time

PM Mignini: So that time, for the first time he calls and says “don’t come”

Knox: Yes it was the first time

Interpreter: Yes it was the first time

PM Mignini: How long after did you reply to him with an SMS? Do you remember?

Knox: I think I replied immediately after I received it

Interpreter: It seems to me I replied immediately, straight after having received it.

PM Mignini: But how did you reply? Try to remember the exact words.

Knox: Okay, I said “ci vediamo” or “ci vediamo più tardi buona serata”

PM Mignini: Più tardi buona serata

Interpreter: It seems to me I’d replied something in the affirmative to his message, saying “Okay, ci vediamo più tardi”

PM Mignini: Ci vediamo più tardi

Lawyer: In Italian, but in English what she said something that she… let her say it clearly in Italian, if you would

Knox: Saying “See you later” is like saying ciao

Interpreter: What she wanted to say was only a salutation ciao

[36]

PM Mignini: But in Italian you wrote let’s meet up later. In Italian you wrote it like this, do you remember this?

Knox: In Italian I had written let’s meet up later have a good evening but it means in my language, see you later have a good evening

PM Mignini: Oh, does Lumumba know English?

Knox: No, he’s never spoken to me in it, we speak in Italian

Interpreter: She has never spoken in English to him only in Italian

PM Mignini: Go on

Knox: We had fish for dinner, I remember this, because it was very good and afterwards, we had eaten in the kitchen and then afterwards he started to wash the dishes, and while he was washing some water dripped on the floor. From under the sink, because the pipes had come unscrewed and the water had fallen on the floor.

Interpreter: They had dinner, they ate fish and after the meal Raffaele washed the plates and while he was washing the plates the water had gone onto the ground because the sink was broken, the sink pipes were broken, they had leaked.

PM Mignini: But did it break suddenly?

Knox: It wasn’t exactly broken, it was rather that the pipes had come unscrewed

Interpreter: Yes it was the first time that the pipes had become detached and afterwards Raffaele had readjusted them

PM Mignini: Therefore it happened unexpectedly, this breakage?

Interpreter: Yes

PM Mignini: They had become loose? What happened? What breakage was it? What type of breakage was it?

Knox: Yes it was the first time that it had happened

[37]

Interpreter: Yes it was the first time that it had happened

PM Mignini: But what happened? I mean was there a pipe breakage or else the screw let’s say, how do you call it, had come unfastened… is it? … we would need to see it…

Knox: I hadn’t examined them myself but what happened is that it had become detached… it had come loose and I don’t believe that…

Interpreter: The pipe had become detached, it had come loose yes

PM Mignini: The pipe came loose right go on

Knox: So to remove the water we grabbed the rags [canovacci= rags or floor rags] … there was too much water and I went into the storeroom to see if there was a mop [in English in the transcript], but there wasn’t then I came back to the kitchen and I said to him “Don’t worry I have a mop at our house” and so tomorrow morning we can go and get it and we can clean…

Interpreter: So to get rid of the water from the ground they used the towels from the kitchen they weren’t enough, they were looking for a rag [sic ‘straccio’ in Italian in the transcript, but obviously the interpreter means ‘mop’] in Raffaele’s house, in the bathroom there wasn’t any so had said “don’t worry tomorrow morning I’ll bring you one, I’ll bring you a rag from my house”

PM Mignini: But in the meantime he’d turned the tap off, no? … So the water wasn’t running out any more

Interpreter: Yes

PM Mignini: Right go on, continue…

Knox: After this Raffaele was a bit upset that the pipes had got broken, he asked me what I wanted to do and we had thought about going, to go back in the bedroom I was laid out on his bed and he was at the desk preparing the joint.

Interpreter: Now then Raffaele was unhappy about this incident because he was saying that the pipes were new and then to cheer her up he thought about what they could do…

[38]

...together and they were thinking about smoking a joint together. They went back to bed and Raffaele manufactured a joint.

PM Mignini: Before going on I wanted a clarification. So you had put down towels right?

Knox: They were tiny and so they had done nothing and in the end I’d thrown them into the sink… yes we had put them on the ground, they had taken up a bit of the water but nothing to speak of… so I had put them in the sink and we’d gone to his bedroom.

Interpreter: They were tiny kitchen towels that had no great effect and which afterwards she had thrown into the sink, these towels

PM Mignini: had Raffaele any newspapers at home?

Knox: I think so

Interpreter: Yes

PM Mignini: Dailies?

Knox: Yes

Interpreter: Yes

PM Mignini: Why didn’t you use the newspaper paper since it absorbs a lot? It’s a question that I put to you

Knox: I didn’t think about it…

Interpreter: They didn’t think about it

PM Mignini: Oh, OK, go on continue to recount this… go on, yes

Knox: While we were smoking we started chatting about what we had done, and after we had chatted we had sex… and after that I believe I had fallen asleep…

[39]

Interpreter: Now then after they had smoked the joint they had made love and afterwards she believes she fell asleep.

PM Mignini: So Sollecito what did he do? Had he fallen asleep with you, he hadn’t gone, he didn’t stay awake?

Knox: I fell asleep in his arms

Interpreter: Yes she had fallen asleep in his arms

PM Mignini: Then? Go on. He received… one last thing, were there phone calls that night?

Knox: No, I switched off my mobile phone

Interpreter: No she had switched off her phone. Amanda had switched off her phone.

PM Mignini: You switched off yours and Raffaele also switched off his?

Knox: I don’t know because I don’t check him so… I don’t know if he switched off his or not

Interpreter: Now then she doesn’t know if Raffaele had switched his off but she doesn’t seem to remember him receiving any phone calls

PM Mignini: But why did you switch off your phone?

Knox: To save the battery, usually I keep it on at night if the following morning I have things to do, but the morning after was the day that everyone was going to skip school and we were going to go to Gubbio the day after with Raffaele. So I switched off my phone because I didn’t want that maybe Patrick might call to tell me to go to work. That’s why I switched it off and saved the battery.

Interpreter: To not have the battery discharge

PM Mignini: But you could recharge it

Interpreter: Since she was out of the house she wanted to save the battery because the next day she would have gone to Gubbio with Raffaele and since the day… she leaves it…

[40]..

on during the night when the following day she has to go to school, but the following day there was no school and so she switched it off also to not run the risk that Patrick would change his mind and would call her to go to work

PM Mignini: Because there was the risk, that is you weren’t sure that…

Knox: He had told me that I didn’t need to go to work but it was still early and I didn’t know if he might have called back to tell me “Yes, now I need you”…

Interpreter: No, when Patrick had called saying that she didn’t need to work it was still early enough and the situation could still change in the sense that more people could turn up and he couldn’t…

PM Mignini: One thing I wanted to know, the phone in the house rang? In Sollecito’s house?

Knox: I don’t remember I can’t be sure about it…

Interpreter: She doesn’t remember, she doesn’t know

PM Mignini: What’s the cell phone that you have? Which one was the cell phone that you switched off? What’s the brand?

Interpreter: the brand, or the [telephone] company…?

PM Mignini: No the brand, I meant the brand

Knox: It’s a Nokia phone

Interpreter: Nokia

PM Mignini: Nokia, but what’s the battery duration, I mean how long normally does the charge of your cell phone [last]..?

Knox: Let’s see…  I think a day but I don’t know… because what I do is that I switch it off if I don’t use it during the night. But if I need it for example as an alarm clock, I let it stay on, then I go home and I charge it again, I put it on charge…

[41]

... I never use it to the point of battery exhaustion. Sometimes I put it on charge, sometimes I don’t.

Interpreter: It seems it lasts 24 hours, and she never lets it run out of battery to the limit

PM Mignini: So there was no risk that it would run out of battery while going to Gubbio?

Interpreter: It normally lasts 24 hours

PM Mignini: What?

Interpreter: The battery lasts 24 hours

PM Mignini: No, I’m asking, what the risk that it would run out of battery be like? I don’t understand

Knox: But why should I waste the battery leaving it on?

Interpreter: She only wanted to feel safe since she didn’t need to keep it on in order to…

PM Mignini: But she usually keeps it on at night

Interpreter: Only when she uses it as an alarm. In the morning

PM Mignini: Well but you’d use the alarm every morning, I use it every morning

Interpreter: But she was not going to school on the next day

PM Mignini: Ah…

Attorney: She said it previously, it was a holiday and I did not put the alarm on

PM Mignini: When you were going to school you said previously. Go on with the description.

Knox: You want to know more about that morning? … When I woke up in the morning, I got up and Raffaele was still in bed, I dressed up and I went to my home, to take care about my things… when I arrived at my home the door was wide open which was strange, so I went in my room, I undressed, I took a shower and…

[42]

...when I got out of the shower, I noticed the blood in the bathroom…  There was not much of it but even that I found it strange… but at the same time it’s not that I immediately thought “Oh my God, there was a murder!”

Interpreter: She fell asleep at night and the following day she woke up at Raffaele’s home, while Raffaele remained in bed she went back home

PM Mignini: Let’s stop here for a moment. I just wanted to know this: On November 2 was it holiday at the … [University?]… because the 2nd is not a holiday here

Knox: The teachers said it was not a problem if I stayed home, because it seems like everyone was going to skip that Friday

Interpreter: Yes there was the sequence. Also the teacher said…

PM Mignini: Go on, so she said…

Interpreter: She said students were not expected to go, they were not coming…

PM Mignini: [the teacher] told her so, on the previous day?

Knox: Yes, on Wednesday I think

Interpreter: Yes on Wednesday at school

PM Mignini: Who was the teacher who told you that?

Knox: I don’t know her name but she is the Professor of Culture, I don’t know the day when she said that to me… but it was during that week… while we were talking during the week, one day she said it was a tradition to make a holiday bridge on Friday if Thursday was a holiday, so they can do [holiday] the whole weekend

Interpreter: So the teacher said it’s a classic for the students to make a holiday bridge when there is a holiday Thursday and have a prolonged weekend

PM Mignini: What’s the name of this teacher?

[43]

Knox: I’m not good at remembering names..

Interpreter: She doesn’t remember the name

PM Mignini: A woman?

Knox: Yes a woman

Interpreter: A woman

PM Mignini: Ok, go forward. You wake up at what time, at Sollecito’s place?

Knox: More or less at ten

Interpreter: Around ten

PM Mignini: And then?

Knox: Then I went back home, the door was open

Interpreter: Then she went back to her home where she found…

PM Mignini: Why did you go back home?

Interpreter: To take a shower and change her clothes

PM Mignini: Why didn’t you take a shower at Sollecito’s?

Knox: Did you see his shower? … It leaks [drops?] everywhere…  It’s a dreadful shower…  I hate to use it… and moreover all what I need to have a shower like shampoo is at my home…

Interpreter: Because it’s an ugly place, small, there is little space

PM Mignini: But you took the shower other times, but also during the afternoon you had one…

Knox: I prefer to take a shower at my home

Interpreter: She prefers to take a shower at her home, she also has clothes at home… 

[44]

Knox: And also all my clothes are at my home…

PM Mignini: So she needed to go home, to take a shower and, let me understand, take a shower and to what?

Interpreter: To change her clothes

PM Mignini: To change your clothes… well and so what [did you]… did you bring anything with you?

Knox: I think I brought some clothes… dirty underwear…

Interpreter: Yes she thinks she brought dirty clothes from Raffaele’s home

PM Mignini: Dirty clothes that is… dirty clothes from previous times? Or since which… since what day were they lasting from?

Knox: I had spent two weeks living a bit at my home and a bit at his home

Interpreter: Because for two weeks she had been living half the time at her home and half the time at his home, and thus she had a bit of…

PM Mignini: What clothes were those ones?

Knox: Maybe underwear

Interpreter: Probably…

Knox: But I don’t remember, maybe it was a t-shirt

PM Mignini: You don’t remember

Interpreter: Dirty clothes…

PM Mignini: Well dirty clothes, I mean a skirt, a pullover…

Interpreter: No rather…

PM Mignini: Underwear garments

[45]

Interpreter: Underwear garments

PM Mignini: She doesn’t remember?

Interpreter: She thinks rather pants and vests /undershirts… and t-shirts

PM Mignini: Well, how were you dressed when you went at your house?

Interpreter: From Raffaele’s house to her house?

Knox: I was wearing trousers I remember that and let’s see…  so much time has passed… I know it was trousers

PM Mignini: Yes

Interpreter: She put on some trousers, she remembers it was trousers

PM Mignini: What colour?

Knox: A t-shirt and a sweater

Interpreter: And a sweater

PM Mignini: A jumper?

Interpreter: No, sweater normally means felpa [cotton sweater]

PM Mignini: A sweater [felpa]? Ask her

Attorney: Was it made of cotton or wool?

Knox: I don’t know

Interpreter: She doesn’t know

PM Mignini: What colour?

Knox: I don’t remember… a long time has passed, I remember what I put on but I don’t remember exactly… I’m sorry…

Interpreter: She doesn’t remember

[46]

PM Mignini: You don’t remember

Interpreter: She remembers she put on but not what…

PM Mignini: And the trousers, what colour were they?

Knox: I don’t remember, I only remember I was wearing trousers… I think they were jeans…

Interpreter: She does not remember even this one… maybe they were jeans

PM Mignini: So around blue? Light blue?

Interpreter: Yes

PM Mignini: What route did you follow to walk…

Knox: The same route I do every day, I walk down Corso Garibaldi I follow the lane close to the basketball court, and next there’s my house

Interpreter: Down Corso Garibaldi then along aside of the basketball court to the house, the route she did every day

PM Mignini: You walked down the stairs?

Knox: No

Interpreter: No

PM Mignini: On the side of the basketball court…

Knox: This road here that…
 
PM Mignini: Oh, so you walked down the lane not the…  the basketball court was on your right?

Knox: Yes

PM Mignini: So, excuse me, did you carry a bag, a [plastic] bag with the dirty clothes, or an empty [plastic] bag?

[47]

Knox: The clothes in a plastic bag

Interpreter: Yes a plastic bag with the dirty clothes

PM Mignini: With the dirty clothes. Well, please go on with the description… then…

Knox: When I arrived home the door was wide open and I thought it was strange, I thought that maybe somebody..  but nobody ever leaves the door open, however there was the possibility that someone went out without locking, maybe for a moment. I saw it I thought it was strange, I closed the door without locking it, because I didn’t know if someone was out,  I went into my room, I undressed and I went into the bathroom, I took a shower, first I took off my earrings, I took a shower and I used the bath mat on which there was some blood because I left my towels in my room. I saw the blood on the mat and I dragged it to my room to grab the towels. And then I took it back into the bathroom.

PM Mignini: Maybe you should stop

Interpreter: So when she arrived home she found the house door open, that was strange, she thought it was one of the girls who went out for a moment, she pulled it ajar [sic],  she did not lock it because she thought maybe someone left it open on purpose and she went in her room to remove her clothes to take a shower.  When she took a shower…

Knox: When I went to take a shower I forgot the towel in my room, I took off my earrings, I took a shower I had to use the bath mat and drag it to my room and then I dragged it back into the bathroom I put on my earrings

[48]

.. again, I saw the blood on the bath mat and in the bathroom but I did not think something terrible happened.

Interpreter: when she had gone [sic] into the bathroom to take a shower she forgot the towel and so there was this, how’s the word in Italian, bath mat which she used to go back and walk in her room to take the towel… she had taken away her earrings in the bathroom and from there she noticed there was some blood on the mat and on the basin, but she noticed it was strange but she didn’t think about something….

PM Mignini: I’m sorry I didn’t understand, but you took the bath mat to walk, to go in her bedroom?

Interpreter: Yes in order not to slip.. so to avoid walking barefoot

PM Mignini: When did you realize?

Knox: After the shower

Interpreter: After the shower

PM Mignini: When did you realize there was blood?

Interpreter: After the shower

Knox: I saw the blood when I entered the bathroom, I saw a little of blood just as I entered the bathroom, before taking the shower I took off my earrings, I took the shower and then I noticed blood on the bath mat

Interpreter: She noticed the blood while entering the bathroom, on the basin when she took off her earrings, then she had a shower and after the shower she was without the towel, so she used the mat to shuffle into her room

PM Mignini: Yes, so you saw blood before you took a shower?

[49]

Interpreter: Yes, in the basin

PM Mignini: In the basin

Interpreter: But on the bathmat, there she saw it when she was about to use the bathmat

PM Mignini: On the basin, where did you see it… where was the blood?

Knox: It was inside the basin, that was after… and it was also on the faucets

Interpreter: Inside the basin and on the taps

PM Mignini: So the blood was in the basin in the [inside] part… and on the tap… well, then… this was before taking a shower… then after taking the shower..

Interpreter: The towel was missing and she used

PM Mignini: She walked and realized that there was blood on the bathmat as well

Interpreter: Yes, yes

PM Mignini: And what did you do then?

Knox: I used the bathmat to walk to my room to get the towel and I went back into the bathroom, I think I washed my teeth, something I usually do, and when I dried myself I went back to my room and I put my clothes on.

Interpreter: So after she dried herself up in the bathroom and…

PM Mignini: Just a moment, before going on. The dirty clothes you had with you, where did you put them?

Knox: Between my bed and the wardrobe there is a heap of dirty clothes… there is a little space between the two and I usually put the dirty clothes there, behind the guitar… the guitar is not mine… the guitar is Laura’s..

Interpreter: So she put the [plastic] bag between the bed and the wardrobe, there is a space where she placed the guitar her friend has lent her

[50] 

Knox: Not the bag, just the clothes

Interpreter: And she placed the clothes, without the [plastic] bag, behind the guitar

PM Mignini: Why didn’t you put them into the washing machine?

Knox: Because I put all the dirty clothes in the same place, and when I’m ready to do a washing I put all the clothes in the washing machine

Interpreter: Because she was waiting to have some more to do a whole washing

PM Mignini: The bathmat, where did you… where did you take it after?

Knox: Once I finished using it to go and to come back from my room, I put it in the bathroom again

Interpreter: She put it back into the bathroom

PM Mignini: Were the bedroom doors open or closed?

Knox: No they were all closed…  Filomena’s door was closed, Meredith’s was closed and Laura’s I think it was slightly ajar

Interpreter: Only that one, the door of Laura was only a little bit open, so it seems to her, the other two were closed.

PM Mignini:  The other two were closed, you tried to open ... to knock?

Knox: No

Interpreter: No

PM Mignini: Why didn’t you try? With .... blood ... with the front door open .... I mean….

Knox: I didn’t see a reason to do it…

Interpreter: She did not see a reason for knocking

[51]

PM Mignini: So, excuse me, you find the door open, the front door open and itself this is something… then you find the blood in the bathroom and you have a shower despite this and this is something, allow me to say that, for… a bit strange this one, I mean you could imagine that there could be some, there could be some ill-intentioned person in the house or around, you find the front door open and the blood in the bathroom and in spite of everything you took a shower. The rooms were closed. You didn’t attempt to knock. Did you enter the rooms? This is strange.

Knox: In my whole life nothing that was ever remotely similar to this has ever occurred to me… I do not expect to come back home and find there is something wrong  

Interpreter: She did not expect to find something wring because she never experienced something…

PM Mignini: But there was blood, there was the front door open

Knox: There was not so much blood.. it could have been anything… when I saw the open door I thought it was strange, it’s that the thing I found most strange, I did not think it was so strange to find blood in the bathroom…

PM Mignini: But did you enter the rooms? I asked if you entered the room

Knox: No

Interpreter: No

PM Mignini: You didn’t even knock?

Knox: No because when I came in I called to hear whether there was somebody at home

[52]

Interpreter: As she entered the house she called to know if there was somebody

Knox: But there was no answer

Interpreter: But there was no answer

PM Mignini: Listen, where did you dry up yourself?

Knox: In the bathroom

Interpreter: In the bathroom

PM Mignini: The bathroom, the small one, the one nearby… yours?

Knox: Yes I took the towel from the room, I dragged myself into the bathroom [sic], I dried myself up a little more…

Interpreter: Yes she dried herself up in the bathroom more or less, then she finished drying herself up in her bedroom

PM Mignini: Listen, were there broken glasses?

Knox: When I came out of from the shower I used the bathmat to go to my room, I took the towel I obviously wrapped it around myself and then I went back to the bathroom and I dried myself up

Interpreter: Before, since after taking the shower she had no towel cause she had forgotten it she went back into her room with the bathmat, there she took the towel which she wrapped around herself and then she finished to dry up herself in the bathroom. She went back in her room when she had finished drying herself

PM Mignini: Still stepping on the bathmat? Still bringing the bathmat?

Knox: I dragged the bathmat, I made more or less a heap to enter my room, I jumped back on the bathmat again and meanwhile my feet had got dry…  and since my feet were dry I brought the bathmat back into the bathroom… I did not drag it back with my feet

[53]

Interpreter: To go back she picked it with her hands because her feet were dry, she was dry

PM Mignini: Listen, but what did you do after?

Knox: I put my earrings on again

Interpreter: She put on her earrings again

PM Mignini: Oh just one thing, I wanted to know, did you see the pieces of broken glass?

Knox: No, I didn’t see them. I saw them the second time I entered the house

Interpreter: No she didn’t see the broken glasses

PM Mignini: Another thing I wanted to know: did you enter the other bathroom? The one with the washing machine?

Knox: Yes after I dressed up I went to dry my hair, and I used the hairdryer that Laura and Filomena use so I went into the other bathroom which is a large bathroom, there is a part, an area where they store all the make-ups… and there is another part with the bathroom fixtures. I passed through the anteroom where they have the make ups, the hairdryer and…

Interpreter: Yes after she dressed up, then…

PM Mignini: Try to interrupt her, or it gets [difficult] 

Interpreter: She dressed up she went in the other bathroom of Laura and Filomena because they have the hairdryer to dry her hair, the bathroom has two areas, let’s say the toilet area and the hairdryer area.. she saw the toilet from a distance, she did not see well because she was not in front of it she was far, and she say some shit, yes

PM Mignini: The toilet paper was there too?

Knox: I did not look into the toilet. From a corner

Interpreter: She only looked from far distance, not at close distance

[54]

PM Mignini: Excuse me, excuse me, I wanted to know this: when you saw this thing, what did you think? I mean did you think that a foreign person entered the house or… ?

Knox: It’s then when I thought something could have happened because the open door and that little amount of blood did not worry me

Interpreter: The fact that the front door was open and the blood seemed strange to her but not so much to feel alarmed…

PM Mignini: I was talking about the faeces

Knox: It’s there that I thought there was something strange, I felt scared…  It’s when I decided to go back to Raffaele’s house, because I got scared…

Interpreter: On that circumstance when she sat the [big] bathroom she started to become afraid

PM Mignini: Have you seen that other times? Did you see un-flushed faeces in the toilet other times? 

Knox: No that’s why it was strange, because nobody in our house would do that

Interpreter: No she never saw that before and exactly for this reason it seemed strange to her and she started to worry

PM Mignini: At this point there were many elements, the blood, the open front door…

Knox: Yes I was worried, after when I saw this, I saw the open front door and also the blood and I thought okay, maybe, I don’t know, but when I saw the blood…

Continued in Part #3 at this address.


Posted by Yummi, Catnip and Kristeva on 10/13/14 at 05:13 PM in


Comments

Please see the “Click here to go straight to Comments” above the image at top? We reinstall it for all very long posts to speed getting to here.

****

If only that bathmat and that towel could talk… That sure must have been their strangest day. Same with the pipe under the sink. Had there been a desperate attempt to clean blood traces out of that?

Clothes? Color of clothes? Ummm… Long suspected those were disposed of overnight, so no hard information could be shared on that.

Lets face it. This was A PROSECUTOR’S DREAM entirely courtesy of AK.

No jury present, so Dr Mignini was not intent on winning points. He would have been studying her face and her voice to catch where she sounded weird (which seems to me was a lot). Relaxing her if he could. Lieutenant Colombo, anyone?

Pity the hapless defense. Knox had been pumping out conflicting statements for over a month at the rate of about one every three days. Defense must have been thinking what a minefield this is.

I do wish Knox’d been given the chance to talk with her parents at Capanne the first time with no bugs in the room. They were angry with fright and shushed her explanation which guaranteed a hard line from then on.

But if she had talked, they might have chosen Guede’s option, knowing they’d finally lose. 

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/13/14 at 06:32 PM | #

Love the way Mignini says, in a relaxed, at-home sort of way: 

‘Did you have newspapers?’ - they would have easily absorbed the excess water until morning, at least…

It just shows up the inauthentic replies…but he brushes over it as if inconsequential, in that lovely Italian way of shrugging shoulders and moving on.

Also with the mat. And the plastic bag. And the washing. He casually asks, ‘Oh, did you put those things (which you can’t remember exactly) in the washing machine?’

Almost like speaking to a daughter, saying ‘and did you, did you remember to put them in after you’d taken them there?’

He follows through the everyday, the mundane, and above all the natural way of going about things, - the way one acts ordinarily. He is deliciously ordinary, relaxed, even verging on humorous - without losing sight of the due gravity.

The way Knox didn’t respond with spontaneous details and natural feelings will have said much.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/13/14 at 08:17 PM | #

Hi SeekingUnderstanding

Interesting how you see Dr Mignini coming across, essentially as benign and encouraging. In her book Knox, apparently wasnt expecting a transcript showing this.

In the light of the transcript, do any of these 17 claims in Knox’s book in the chapter about Dr Mignini and this session ring true to you? My own take folows after each one.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/KnoxVersion17DecInterview.pdf

[1] Carlo and Luciano looked at me doubtfully. “I’m not sure it’s the best idea,” Carlo said. “Mignini is cagey. He’ll do everything he can to trick you.” “He can be intimidating,” Carlo said.

Intimidating? That doesnt show in the transcript here.

[2] “The thought of meeting with Mignini makes me incredibly anxious,” I said. “I know what it’s like to be bullied by him. But I have to try.” “It’s risky,” Carlo said. “Mignini will try to pin things on you.” “He already has,” I told them.

He already has? Actually, he hadnt. He had never formally questioned her before. He was not present at Rita Ficarras list-building session.

[3] The first time I met Mignini at the questura, I hadn’t understood who he was, what was going on, what was wrong, why people were yelling at me, why I couldn’t remember anything. I thought he was someone who could help me (the mayor), not the person who would sign my arrest warrant and put me behind bars.

Of course Knox knew who Mignini was. He repeatedly told her. He presided over her formal warning around 5:00 am on 6 November. Previously he had met her twice, both times at the house. Once on the day Meredith was found, and once when he showed her the knife drawer, which led to another of her various conniptions.

[4] I hadn’t considered that the prosecution would twist my words. I didn’t think they would be capable of taking anything I said and turning it into something incriminating, because everything I said was about my innocence and how I wanted to go home. I was saying the same thing again and again.

Same thing? Really? Actually each prior statement had been subtly different.

[5] On their first visit after the knife story came out, Dad and Mom were telling me my lawyers’ theory—that the police could be using the knife as a scare tactic to get me to incriminate myself. “The police have nothing at all on you,” Mom said. “So they are trying . . . to see if you[’ll] say something more.”

Scare tactic? That was not in the Capanne transcripts.

[6] Luciano and Carlo understood what I hadn’t yet grasped: that the prosecution was so fixated on proving my guilt, they saw only what they wanted to see, heard only what they wanted to hear, found only what they wanted to find. Facts be damned.

Fixated on proving her guilt? That doesnt show in the transcript here. She was offered every chance to clear things up here. Dismal failure.

[7] Carlo and Luciano warned me once again that it might not be so simple. “Mignini will ask pointed questions to snare you,” Carlo said, his face serious. “He will try to paint you as a liar. He wants to show that you have a connection to Rudy Guede. He’ll try to prove that you lied about Patrick on purpose. Are you prepared for that, Amanda?” “I know,” I said. “I’m ready.”  But I didn’t—¬and I wasn’t.

Snare her? Paint her as a liar? That doesnt show in the transcript here.

[8] As the date for the interrogation approached, Luciano and Carlo offered me a few pointers. “Don’t let him get to you. Don’t say anything if you don’t remember it perfectly. It’s okay to say, ‘I don’t remember.’ You don’t have to be God and know everything. It’s better to say, ‘I don’t know,’ and move on.”

Get to her? That doesnt show in the transcript here.

[9] The tension was instantly obvious. Mignini was sitting at his table with two police officers. Like Carlo and Luciano, he was wearing a black robe.

Tension? It was HER meeting. The format was no different from the Matteini hearing 8 November; she knew it would be similar.

[10] I stood near Carlo and Luciano with an interpreter, waiting for Mignini to give me permission to speak. That never came. Instead of asking what I had to say, he started firing questions at me immediately.

Firing questions immediately? It was after all an interview. First questions were to get who she was on the record. Mignini had already heard Knox frantically go on at length on 6 November at the questura. She had a full three hours here to explain herself. .

[11] Mignini grilled me about my drug use, the ¬people I knew in Perugia, the friends I’d invited over to the villa. He asked me when I’d found out that Meredith had been stabbed, hoping to prove that I knew the details of her death before an innocent person would have had the chance to.

Grilled? Where does that show? Hoping to prove? How does she know that? This was all not under oath and no judge was present.

[12] My lawyers listened intently to Mignini’s wording, to his repetitions, to the interpreter’s translation of his questions and my responses, and jumped up to object to suggestive phrasing and misinterpretations. They came prepared to protect me from what they’d warned me against: aggressive and insidious questioning by a prosecutor whose interest wasn’t to hear me out but to get me to say something incriminating. Luciano and Carlo grew less measured as the interrogation dragged on.

“Aggressive and insidious questioning by a prosecutor whose interest wasn’t to hear me out “..Really? Does this show?

[13] I explained how much pressure the police put me under and how confused I was by their claims that I’d met up with someone, that I’d been to the villa that night. Mignini became defensive. “I was there,” he said, referring to the questura the night of my interrogation. “I heard you saying these things.” I said, “You were telling me these things. I was saying, ‘I’m not sure. I’m confused.’ ”

Defensive? Why, exactly? This exchange will be in Part 4. Judge then.

[14] This interrogation was becoming more and more like the one I’d meant to correct. It wasn’t a do-over at all. Mignini would ask a question, and when I answered, he would reject my response and ask again. He was trying to intimidate me, spewing words at me.

Trying to intimidate her? Repeating questions? That doesnt show in the transcript here.

[15] Mignini jumped up, bellowing, “Aha!” I was sobbing out of frustration, anger. My lawyers were on their feet. “This interrogation is over!” Luciano shouted, swiping his arm at the air.

Sobbing out of frustration? This will be in Part 4. It reads like the frustration is with herself. Judge for yourself then.

[16] As he left, Mignini apparently told waiting reporters that I hadn’t explained anything or said anything new. All I did, he said, was cry.

None of the reporting mentioned this. What “waiting” reporters? Dr Mignini rarely talks to them, and this was in Capanne Prison.

[17] There was nothing I could do that would make any difference to the prosecutor. In Mignini’s hands, everything was distorted and bent to seem like more evidence of my guilt, and I was devastated.

“Everything was distorted and bent to seem like more evidence of my guilt” Oh? That sure doesnt show in the transcript here.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/14/14 at 05:22 AM | #

Yes. Oh dear. What a contrast to the reality.

‘Facts be dammed’. Who is economic or fictitious with the facts, and instantly ‘can’t remember’ selective ones when a contradiction becomes apparent?

There is another way of looking at it, which is : Mignini is a mature and experienced interviewer, who skillfully knows how to ask the correct and logical questions that will most accurately and swiftly arrive at the true facts. Which after all was his brief.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/14/14 at 05:54 AM | #

So you are not surprised that Dr Giancarlo Costa took off from the Knox defense team like a rabbit?!

We will be going through the entire Knox book for examples like those above, and isolate out the supposed quotes from her remaining lawyers.

Maybe we will see the back end of a lot more rabbits.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/14/14 at 07:17 AM | #

“and in response to the message I said to him, I wished him a good evening   and   that I would see him again later when he would be… “

What??!!

Posted by PK777 on 10/14/14 at 12:25 PM | #

Hi PK777

You zoom in on one thing that we do wish Dr Mignini had been able to zoom in on more - though he didnt want to scare Knox into not talking, better half a loaf than none at all.

In the 4th post (Friday) in this series there will be more of the exchanges on this. Keep watching.

In her 1:45 statement on 6 November Knox quite clearly said she was heading out to meet Patrick right then - as Patrick had not asked for this and she knew he was at the bar, it reads like she was headed to the bar to pick a bone with him (we presume over Meredith’s securing a bar job).

She said she met him at Piazza Grimana though she KNEW he was at the bar. Maybe there she met Guede in the piazza and headed to the house not the bar.

Where was Sollecito? Curatolo puts them together as does physical evidence in the house. In the first statement on 6 November she said Sollecito was not with her; I think she really, really regrets that.

In the second and third statements of 6 November hints of him being there emerge. Through Nov and Dec both RS and AK were flying blind, knowing little of what the other or Guede were saying, and some statements sound really paranoid.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/14/14 at 12:41 PM | #

Yes and very true. She is after all into creative writing. The point is very simple. She twist and turns but like all liars she can’t remember which is which or who it was. The lies will always trip you up no matter how clever you are. She has for so long relied upon the gullibility of others that to be questioned by anyone who is halfway intelligent is a no win situation for her hence the list of questions submitted before each interview. Then there are other who have another agenda such as several interviewers/writers who are in it for self aggrandizement. This does not touch upon the hysteria of the Knox supporters however who collectively have the intelligence of a rice pudding. That is proven by the fact that they collectively think that this will never end since it never will. It will continue for years and years no matter what the outcome and we of course will be there demanding Justice for Meredith.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 10/14/14 at 01:03 PM | #

Hi Peter

Thanks for reply. I’m just trying to imagine what she was going to finish that sentence with.

So maybe the ‘see ya later’ text was not just a mis-translated colloquialism, maybe she really was going to see him - perhaps as you say to have it out with him - even catch him out with new staff member MK serving at the bar.

PL in the Mail said she went very cold when he mentioned employing MK.

I read somewhere (The Mail) that PL headed off to see MK at 3 in the morning to discuss the job, Bit odd with wife and kid back at home . . .

Posted by PK777 on 10/14/14 at 01:13 PM | #

““I told her I’d asked Meredith to come and work for me and her face dropped and there was a big silence. Then she said, ‘Fine,’ and stropped off.

I knew then she was extremely jealous of Meredith. She obviously thought she was invading her territory.”

By Tuesday, October 30, his patience ran out. He told Amanda she could carry on handing out club flyers, but could no longer work in the bar.

“She looked at me blankly and walked away,” he says. “The club was busy and I didn’t see her again that evening.”

***

At 3am he locked up and went on to another club, where he bumped into Meredith. “I mentioned the idea of her working for me again,” he says.

“She smiled sweetly and said she couldn’t wait, and she’d bring all her friends back to my club for me.”

Patrick Lumumba Daily Mail 25 Nov 2007

Posted by PK777 on 10/14/14 at 01:21 PM | #

I also never bought the “I was so happy NOT to work that evening” line. She was down to two sessions a week (?) so that’s half her income gone. Weren’t five free evenings a week enough? Suggests she was over-covering her anger at being cut out for the evening - only two nights after being told she could not work IN the bar . . .

Posted by PK777 on 10/14/14 at 02:19 PM | #

Not only Amanda Knox but her supporters have a hard time keeping their stories together.

Here, they just admit they don’t know whether TMB tests were done on the blood stains or not.

http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=123477#p123477

They also admit the defense didn’t hand over everything to them, thus putting paid to Bruce Fischer’s claim he’s got the complete case file

Hint: read the case files and the Massei Report.

Posted by Ergon on 10/14/14 at 02:34 PM | #

Hi Ergon

Perfect. There are things that may be in evidence that could have been pushed out into the open if they helped Knox. But they have never surfaced.

One is the image of Knox’s phone showing the message she sent to Lumumba and his name if it appeared - in those older phones, unless he was in her directory, it may not have appeared.

Even the defense teams cant simply shovel evidence out in the public domain. They have to go though an authorization process.

Knox people seem oblivious to the immense dangers of these present much-read series and Knox’s fast disappearing victimhood. .

Are they still diddling on over in the microscopic nooks of the DNA area?

That reminds one of the drunk who lost his car keys over here but he’s searching over there because that is where the best light is. Rare to see an entire mob doing it.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/14/14 at 02:46 PM | #

That, and they’re going on about “osmotico” in the Nencini Report, Peter. Some sort of mass hysteria, but not one coherent criticism yet.

Posted by Ergon on 10/14/14 at 02:56 PM | #

The other thing in these transcripts is how her recall for detail ebbs and flows at will. The bathmat shuffle is ‘remembered’ so clearly but what she was wearing is blank.

Filomena’s door is firmly shut I see. RS opened it wide then slowly closed it to ajar over the years.

Posted by PK777 on 10/14/14 at 02:58 PM | #

Thank you all for the wonderful translation work. I do not go looking for what RS and AK are saying nowadays but it seems “silent” out there and I would assume Knox has read the report in Italian when it first came out.

Has anybody heard any rumblings now that we have read these transcripts in English? Someone mentioned that RG has been a more nuanced liar than the evil ones but I still do not understand why he does not fess up that he was present when poor Meredith was murdered?

Of all people I would assume he wants to come clean but I am thinking if he does fess up he would implicate himself as a rapist and accessory to murder? As far as I know he has never conceded anything but has hinted at AK and RS involvement.

If I am not mistaken I do believe he did place himself at her apartment and stated he was there at the invite of Meredith? Thanks.

Posted by Vinnie on 10/14/14 at 04:25 PM | #

Dr Mignini to the interpreter about 20 lines from the end above:

PM Mignini: Try to interrupt her, or it gets [difficult]

What one might call the opposite of browbeating.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/14/14 at 05:05 PM | #

We read you Vinnie. The present posting arcs relate to AK and (soon) Doug Preston. Next comes an RS arc, and then we get back to an arc on the Lone Wolf and Guede.

Guede seems to be between a rock and a hard place at least until he gets released, the attack on him several years ago was never explained but he might have read it as a warning.

There may never be a reason for him to take matters further. Far more fruitful perhaps is the slow-motion war between AK and RS which should move into fast gears if he is locked up while she stays free.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/14/14 at 05:12 PM | #

@ Vinnie
I believe Guede has always said he was there, you are right…and also I’m sure he realises the DNA proves his sexual involvement. There is also the evidence of Meredith’s bruises.

It seems to me he has been keen to try and portray an image of himself as not being nasty…he has tried, it seems to me, to put a distance between himself and the cruel, humiliating elements in the crime. We cannot know in what way he was used and manipulated (or not). The DNA of his on Meredith’s wrist indicates he was party to her restraint and immobilisation, and therefore assault.

But we also cannot know for certain if indeed he was in the room when the final fatal knife wound was made. It is in theory possible that he had had to go the the toilet in reaction to his kebab (as he said). In theory that might have meant there was suddenly one less pair of hands to restrain her - which might have meant it was then that she managed to free herself just enough ( from the forceful restraint on her jaw) to give the heart-rending scream, which then precipitated the fatal blow.

I think he is afraid to say anything further…yet. There will be time, and I think he knows it.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/14/14 at 05:15 PM | #

PS Vinnie

No, theres not the slightest sign Knox even knew this transcript existed. Read her own chapter linked to above which is 180 degrees opposite.

This was not testimony presented in court, unlike what she heard from Rita Ficarra and other investigators sitting a couple of meters away from them - and even that she went 180 degrees against in her book.

Go figure.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/14/14 at 05:34 PM | #

This is great.  I had run some of this through an automated translator but it’s nothing like hearing it from the speakers’ own lips.

Knox wrote:

“Mignini will ask pointed questions to snare you,” Carlo said, his face serious. “He will try to paint you as a liar. He wants to show that you have a connection to Rudy Guede. He’ll try to prove that you lied about Patrick on purpose. Are you prepared for that, Amanda?”

And also:

“Don’t let him get to you. Don’t say anything if you don’t remember it perfectly. It’s okay to say, ‘I don’t remember.’ You don’t have to be God and know everything. It’s better to say, ‘I don’t know,’ and move on.”

That’s Dalla Vedova and Ghirga as they appear in her “memoir” prior to this meeting. 

And, in this segment, here’s a list of things Knox claims not to have remembered:

1]  The time of the movie she allegedly watched.
2]  The time of Patrick’s text message.
3]  Whether the phone rang at all at Sollecito’s that evening.
4]  Her teacher’s name.
5]  Any details about the clothes she wore.

That’s rather a lot to have no clue about since she cannot have thought Mignini—at that late date—wouldn’t have been interested in such details.  I suspect her lawyers weren’t cautioning her in the way she relates but instead telling her not to schedule a meeting with the magistrate outside of a courtroom setting.

Posted by Stilicho on 10/14/14 at 05:51 PM | #

@ Pete
yes, I noticed that…Mignini asking the translator to try and pause the cascade of words, so they could stay on track for the interview, and also the translations.

Hardly domineering or prohibitive…

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/14/14 at 05:58 PM | #

Thank you Yummi, Catnip and Kristeva. This is really great work! I am looking forward to #3 and more soon.

About the bathmat shuffle, I would like to add that earlier this year, Knox made yet another change to her story:

Court testimony – June 12 2009 Knox: “I used the mat to kind of hop over to my room and into my room, I took my towel, and I used the mat to get back to the bathroom.”

Amanda Knox Blog:  “Amanda says: FEBRUARY 28, 2014 AT 15:15 2) “I took a shower and used the bathmat to shuffle a bit into the hall, only to abandon that procedure part-way through because it wasn’t accomplishing much.” (removed)

I’ve seen a screen shot of her above statement but can’t find it now.

Posted by Johnny Yen on 10/14/14 at 07:15 PM | #

If she was as unfazed by the bloody footprint as she claims she was…why didn’t she simply put it in the wash afterwards?
That would be the normal, hygienic thing to do.

If it was left there in order not to interfere with evidence, it shouldn’t have been touched at all, -no shuffles or hops.

More inconsistencies.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/14/14 at 07:44 PM | #

The reason why Knox and Sollecito’s books 180 their own testimony is because they were ghostwritten, and neither bothered to coordinate their stories or check what they put their names to. They only took the checks and ran.

Like OJ Simpson, who his manager tells us was paid $250,000 just to put his name to his If I Did It book. Wasn’t Sharlene Martin involved with that book as well?

Posted by Ergon on 10/14/14 at 08:56 PM | #

Thanks for clarifying. I do believe RS and Co. will raise hell when he is imprisoned and Amanda is not. Extradition may take some time. It still boggles my mind that two convicted murderers are walking about freely.

While I am not one for violence it did not hurt my feelings to see that RG ran into a wall with all those bruises and what not. I agree that the drama will be between the perps and their families and perhaps we may hear some startling news in the near future.

I did read AK account of the questioning and all I can say is ‘busted’. People in the know also can see all the tell-tale signs of drug abuse in the lives of the antagonists and were not surprised to see that AK or RS were involved with drug peddlers.

It does however, fray the attempts at positive spin, and allows others to see that their is more to AK than what the media (spin doctors) have led us to believe.

Posted by Vinnie on 10/14/14 at 10:19 PM | #

For the benefit of the good folk at IIP wishing for European Court intervention, you don’t want to know what Lawyer Ghirga thinks about Knox’s case.

Her appeal to Strasbourg was filed only by Rome lawyer Carlo della Vedova.

I wonder what the jurists will think about her claims to have been coerced into blaming Patrick Lumumba, and all her other voluntary statements, LOL.

Posted by Ergon on 10/15/14 at 08:59 AM | #

Hi, Vinnie, SeekingUnderstanding,

The involvement of Rudy Guede in the murder was not just symbolic, it was very real, and talk about his early release makes my blood boil.

I don’t necessarily think he killed Meredith (in the sense of dealing the death blow), but he was directly involved - he restrained her while she was being tortured, his finger DNA was inside her and his epithelial tissue on her sweater, which indicates massive friction and brutality.

Added to this, as you correctly observe, is his general silence - he may be concerned about his own safety, but that’s his concern, not other people’s.

People want to find the truth, and they’re willing to accept even Guede’s early release just to hear a few words from His Majesty about what really happened that night. Being the scumbag that he is, Guede probably senses that, and is patiently playing his cards, i.e., not saying anything until he’s out of the pen.

If people really think that Guede is rehabilitated enough to be free, I invite them to think about having him as the next-door neighbor (I had neighbors 100X less toxic than Guede and I still moved out).

Posted by Bjorn on 10/15/14 at 10:02 AM | #

Hi Bjorn,
I didn’t intend to give an impression that Guede’s involvement in the murder was only symbolic - more that it is very difficult to arrive at a true narrative when all three perpetrators refuse to tell the truth.
It must be difficult for judges in a case with multiple assailants to ascertain the degree of responsibility of each one.

Once someone has lied once, it is very difficult to give credibility to anything they say - anything might be a story, and yes, they would be a liability as a neighbour.

Do we have close, trusting, local communities anymore? Perhaps in pockets, but seldom, generally.
So many people are ‘out in the community’ on license. It doesn’t feel too safe for most ordinary, law-abiding people, who don’t know anything about who is around them.
And feeling like this - afraid, cautious, perhaps suspicious - has a bad affect on their psychology and mental health.
We need trust, we need belonging - these are genuine human needs. One of the shocking aspects of the Knox case is the way it happened within a ‘shared’ student house. We need protection within such a situation. I wonder if more students always lock their doors now?
Poor Meredith.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/15/14 at 11:24 AM | #

Thank you for your sensible words, SeekingUnderstanding.

I have first-hand experience with politically-motivated “early” releases (around Christmas, of all possible times), when bunches of hardened crims were set loose among regular citizens - everybody lived in fear.

In a way I myself have become violent and intolerant, and I’m still trying to figure out why - not much of a mystery, though, I hail from a big, industrial city, with pubs having such poetic names as the “Destroyer”, because the distinguished customers used to trash the place after getting drunk.

It doesn’t have to be like this, though, I really hope that things can change, but in some cases it takes a bit of discipline and hard line.

Posted by Bjorn on 10/15/14 at 12:05 PM | #

@ Bjorn
Yes indeed…I’m of the opinion that society has become too lax, too blurred around the edges, and that we need more discipline.

As with children, discipline doesn’t have to be harsh- it just has to be firm with clear boundaries that are consistent.

here is a saying that i like :
‘Discipline is found within freedom; and freedom is found within discipline’.
Discipline can be both liberating and fruitful. It is sad to live surrounded by people who hate it/can see no value in it.

One sign of hope is in today’s young people - the really young ones. They are turning away from drink and drugs, and are interested in making adult contributions in the world. Well, that’s a bit of a sweeping generalisation! but there does seem a swing towards it…

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/15/14 at 01:46 PM | #

DId Filomena and Laura let their roommates know they were going out of town? I cannot find anything in the transcripts. Migini questions Amanda about when she discovered they were out of town but I am curious if it was actually before Nov 2nd when Amanda found out. It seems if she did know before Meredith’s murder, it would point to premeditation.

I am also curious what Amanda proposed to Meredith about getting together with her on the previous nights. Meredith brings it up in converstion with her friends while at Sophie’s. Sounds like the reality of not working at Le Chic was real for Amanda and she knew this (Patrick’s statements support this as well b/c he wants her to just hand out flyers) and that is why she knew she was available to try to make plans with Meredith.

Lastly, there is local newspaper here in Seattle that is not really journalism but mostly colorful pages of advertisements about dentists that can do teeth implants and doctors that can do plastic surgery but Amanda choose it to write about being a victim in prison and wrongly accused.

People: She still does not have an alibi and the alibi she has had has changed many times.

http://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-profiles/articles/what-it-feels-like-to-be-wrongly-accused-october-2014

Posted by Annie on 10/15/14 at 04:17 PM | #

The reason for this, at least in part is simple brain washing of the general population. Mostly in the USA where guns are everywhere there is a misconception of what they do. The only people who do know are those who have been hit by bullets and survived. And we have become a society that believes in entitlement. For example Military basic training

During war games whenever somebody was killed (sic) after it was all over the dead person came back to life thereby removing the concept that death was final. Too easy then to aim and pull a trigger. The movies have pushed this since they started, and before that books. Find me a film today where there is no car chase and the younger generation will stay away in their thousands. (Too boring too cerebral etc:)

As to Knox leading Sollecito and Guede (because that was how it was set up) into raping torturing and murdering Meredith take the case here of Christine Paolilla who had been befriended by three of her class mates who took her under their wing and showed her how to dress and make up so that she became the most popular girl in the school.

She, with her boyfriend, who later committed suicide, killed all those girls in order to steal money for drugs (sound familiar). Paolilla herself smashed the head of one of the girls with the butt of her gun until she was dead.

As to living in a society that believes in entitlement. This is Knox all over. She believes/does and always did, that she was entitled to be admired for her amazing beauty/cleverness/intelligence/talent/sport-capabilities/sexual prowess…ie “I can have any man I want” Take her comment about one of the girls boyfriends when she said “You can have him” it must have pissed her off that Patrick dismissed her, preferring Meredith of course.

Knox was told this from the beginning of childhood. Particularly after her father left. Particularity by her mother who is a “Free Spirit”

No, this was set up from the beginning. If it hadn’t been Meredith then it would have been someone else, given the need for drugs which was the primary driver behind their actions fueled by Knox jealousy over Meredith who was so superior to Knox that Knox could not stand it anymore.

That is why the humiliation included Guede which spiraled down into murder.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 10/15/14 at 04:43 PM | #

Interesting about the war ‘games’, Grahame, and also the entitlement attitudes… true.

Life is serious (not a quirky prank).

Nencini is serious. Let’s hope his message will break through.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/15/14 at 05:33 PM | #

@ Annie on 10/15/14 at 04:17 PM:

“Did Filomena and Laura let their roommates know they were going out of town?”

Yes. In “Honor Bound”, Chapter 1, Kindle Location 322-338, RS says that on Nov. 1st, 2007, AK knew that Laura, Filomena, & the Boys down below would not be there on Nov. 2nd.

Posted by Cardiol MD on 10/15/14 at 06:43 PM | #

In my previous post I did not mention that it is an outrage that Guide’s sentence is so not in line with the brutality and violent nature of his crime. It is a travesty of justice that such a criminal would even be allowed out of prison. He is arrogant and has not shown the least bit of remorse for what he did. The fact that he can possibly be allowed to get out of prison and go to college on a daily basis is beyond ludicrous. Let us hope that the Italian justice system will keep him locked up and serve his full time without any outdoor activities.

Posted by Vinnie on 10/15/14 at 11:31 PM | #

Again @ Annie on 10/15/14 at 04:17 PM:

“Did Filomena and Laura let their roommates know they were going out of town?”

Again: Yes. See Nencini (English Translation) page 99:

“If one excludes Meredith Kercher, only Amanda Knox knew that both Filomena Romanelli and Laura Mezzetti, for different reasons, would have been away from the residence for the entire holiday weekend; and this because they had talked about it on 31 October 2007, when Romanelli had left the apartment to spend the holiday with her boyfriend Marco Zaroli.”

Posted by Cardiol MD on 10/16/14 at 12:41 AM | #

Hi Vinnie

Re Guede, we see shades of gray here. Guede had no criminal record, and PR shill Nina Burleigh etc have made up numerous claims about him being in the middle of a crime wave and a police informer. In fact he wasnt either.

He did actually say in court to the Kerchers he was sorry, the only one of the three to do so. He has still not moved beyond saying Meredith invited him in, which is ludicrous and all Meredith’s friends said so - neither had any interest in the other and had barely exchanged a word ever, and Meredith had urgent homework to do and was very tired.

Why? Probably because he remains extremely nervous. He radically changed after mysteriously being beaten up in the sex offenders wing, the purpose of which is to stop such things so it really freaked him. He was so nervous at the Hellmann appeal his statement had to be read for him.

The reduced 16 years is purely automatic and flows directly from the very lenient sentence Judge Massei awarded Knox and Sollecito. Massei did that because he went looking for reasons to be lenient to RS and AK - blaming Guede for starting the attack (really?) and saying RS and AK showed remorse by covering Meredith (really?). There is no reason in other judges eyes or the prosecutions eyes why they should not have got life sentences plus years added for all the defamation, illegal bloodmoney, and harassing of the victim’s family. .

Someone emailed after reading recent posts on RS and AK that Guede is proving to be the “best” liar of the three and our post on the end of his legal process was pretty scathing. He did recently get a new sentence (three years) in Milan for receipt of stolen property.

The release for study is to help prisoners get jobs after finishing their sentences so they dont get stuck in a life of crime. the program is extremely effective, released Italian prisoners have an exceptionally low rate of commiting new crimes, a small fraction of the US and European averages. .

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/16/14 at 04:44 AM | #

@Peter

Re the study program and “...released Italian prisoners have an exceptionally low rate of commiting new crimes…”.

There’s obviously some smart and cool thinking that goes on in Italy when it comes to the prevention of reoffending. Maybe someone should put the comparative statistics under the noses of UK legislators, who (knowing our conservative and fossilised judiciary/ civil service mandarins) are no doubt generally more inclined to think criminals are “bad” and so the minimum of mercy should be shown or help given. That would be the typical knee-jerk reaction, very short-sighted.

In the UK (and elsewhere?) the likelihood of reoffending is negatively correlated with the length of prison sentence /gravity of the crime, as might be expected; for example 17% of those sentenced to 10+ years (like Guede was in Italy) go on to reoffend, compared with 58% among those receiving less than 12 months. (http://open.justice.gov.uk/reoffending/prisons/). It would be interesting to see similar data from Italy.

No doubt stick and carrot are both necessary: deprivation of freedom for a significantly painful amount of time,  proportionate to the nature of the crime,  but good help with reintegration into society at the end of the term.

Posted by Odysseus on 10/16/14 at 12:27 PM | #

Knox says “while he was washing some water dripped onto the floor”.  If SOME WATER DRIPPED, would a mop really be essential?

I also find Knox’s “I fell asleep in his arms” suspicious; it is unnecessary detail. Maybe deliberately tying herself to Sollecito to share the guilt perhaps.

Posted by DavidB on 10/16/14 at 02:51 PM | #

Any errors found in the PDF, please make note of the page number at the bottom and quote the exact text please? We’ll pass on to the editors.

Posted by Ergon on 10/16/14 at 03:07 PM | #

@ Cardiol MD -
Did Filomena and Laura let their roommates know they were going out of town?”

So that is another contradiction b/c she tells Migini that she found out 2 Nov.

Posted by Annie on 10/17/14 at 08:34 PM | #

@ DavidB -
‘Knox says “while he was washing some water dripped onto the floor”.  If SOME WATER DRIPPED, would a mop really be essential?’

Evidently, she needed a mop many hours later, like the next day (12+ hours later) for that sink leak…Who lets water just sit on the floor. Get a towel! Unbelievable details.

Most likely A&R just need an excuse for using and having the wet bucket and mop with them on the porch when the police arrive at Amanda’s unexpectedly on Nov 2. sniff sniff. Any bleach smell in that bucket?

Posted by Annie on 10/17/14 at 08:41 PM | #

@ DavidB -
‘Knox says “while he was washing some water dripped onto the floor”.  If SOME WATER DRIPPED, would a mop really be essential?’

Evidently, she needed a mop many hours later, like the next day (12+ hours later) for that sink leak…Who lets water just sit on the floor. Get a towel! Unbelievable details.

Most likely A&R just need an excuse for using and having the wet bucket and mop with them on the porch when the police arrive at Amanda’s unexpectedly on Nov 2. sniff sniff. Any bleach smell in that bucket?

Posted by Annie on 10/17/14 at 08:42 PM | #

Knox is such a bloody liar. Here is a direct contradiction in her testimony, only a few lines apart:

“PM Mignini: But did it break suddenly?

Knox: It wasn’t exactly broken, it was rather that the pipes had come unscrewed

(and then….)

PM Mignini: Right go on, continue…

Knox: After this Raffaele was a bit upset that the pipes had got broken,....”

So, Knox, were the pipes broken or not broken?

I have always tried to imagine this water “leak” or “spillage” and even the scenario where the sink pipe had become “loose” or “detached”. For the life of me, even on this issue, I am completely unable to make any coherent sense of it.

I have always believed that Knox needed to create the “water spillage” story to cover her ass, in case someone saw her bring her own mop from her house to Sollecito’s flat - something she had to do to wash all traces of Meredith’s blood off it, after the big “clean up”.

Now, that does make sense!

Posted by Mealer on 10/27/14 at 03:55 AM | #

@ Mealer - See this Post:

“Updating Our Scenarios And Timelines #1: The Timing Of RS Phone Events By Coordinated Universal Time” on 06/01/13:

“.....The water-leak and RS phone records for the night

Here is the UTC-recorded Telephone Traffic of Raffaele Sollecito’s mobile phone beginning with the entire day of 1.11.07 [from Massei Translation beginning p. 318]:

− 00:00:39 an outgoing call, just after midnight

− 00:57 an incoming SMS 319

− 14:25 an incoming call which lasted 58 seconds

− 16:50 an incoming call, coming from the mobile phone of the father, lasting 214 sec.

− 16:56 another call from the father (64 sec.)

− 20:42:56 call from the father (221 seconds):

This last is the conversation which Dr. Francesco Sollecito referred to, made at the end of the film he had just seen in the cinema, which the father recommended to the son, at which point Raffaele informed his father of the problem with the water leak in the kitchen.

The whole water-leak story is based on statements from the Defendants and their familial relatives. There is no separate proof…....

....The defendant’s version of the cause, from Massei:


“…water was leaking below and he looked at it; he turned off the water and then looked below the sink, and this pipe had become loose, so the water that was coming from the faucet was leaking out.‛ (page 77). It would have been around 21:30-22:00 pm. She remembered that Raffaele was very upset about that inconvenience and he told her that the pipe had recently been repaired….”

By whom was it next repaired? When? They’re silent.

This leak story might not-only have been thought-up after the murder, but could have been thought-up by a family-member, including fathers, mothers, and sisters, including Vanessa.

Posted by Cardiol MD on 10/27/14 at 09:44 AM | #


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