Saturday, August 28, 2010

From Shortly Before Last December’s Verdict: Our Poster Hopeful’s Moving Tribute To Italian Justice

Posted by The TJMK Main Posters

We have dozens of posts on TJMk illustrating how the Italian justice system is among the best in the world. Careful, humane, and in fact hardly ever wrong.

In part because police and prosecutors are very painstaking - read here of all the hurdles they have to get through.

In part because judges have to put their careers on the line with each judgment, as with Judge Massei now, and not simply hide behind an unexplained jury decision from 12 amateurs of random education levels.

Six weeks before the December 2009 verdict, Hopeful paid them this kind tribute.

Moved By Italian Justice: Doing The Very Best It Can For Meredith And Her Poor Family

Crestfallen and broken, Amanda and Raffaele react in visible distress in the latest courtroom photos.

Amanda looks sad, smitten, perplexed, astounded, with anger not far under the veneer, yet overall truly sorrowful for the first time in 2 years. Raffaele is weeping as the court denies more evidence do-overs. He feels the weight of this blow.

These two are probably guilty, but it still makes me sad to see what prison can do to human beings. Why, oh why, couldn’t they have let Meredith live and simply enjoy her sweet life? Mercy to her would have been multiplied back to them so very many times over.

I believe Prosecutor Mignini and his assistant, Mrs. Comodi, and all the Perugia homicide cops want to see JUSTICE done above all.

Surely they take no pleasure in the misery that native-son Sollecito is undergoing. They had to arrest him to redress a huge evil. I’m sure they regret the repercussions this has meant to his father, a fine medical doctor, an upstanding citizen of Italy. Despite this, and America’s loud outcries, they have proceeded.

I think the Italian police and prosecutors have acted with more intense caution and discretion in handling the evidence against Amanda because of her U.S. citizenship. I don’t think this is a case of two innocents being railroaded.

If the Italian police had wanted to score points politically, they could have closed the case after the arrest and conviction of Rudy Guede. The police saw undeniable proof to their practiced eyes that Amanda and Raffaele were very guilty.

And I don’t think forensic scientist Patrizia Stefanoni of the Polizia Scientifica in Rome is in the prosecution’s back pocket. I believe she acted in good faith. Patient and careful analysis of forensic lab samples requires real intelligence and excludes quick passion.

“To be or not to be??”. From Shakespeare’s play Hamlet. Methinks Amanda does look a little Danish.

It wasn’t fish blood or cat’s blood or pierced ear blood on their hands, it was the blood of honor. Meredith was defenseless in a foreign land. She was a great asset to her own family, to the Erasmus program, to Italy, and eventually to the world. She deserves the best efforts of her host country, and she’s receiving them here.

It now feels like justice is not only happening here - it’s convincingly SEEN to be happening. We all owed you this one, sweet Meredith. May you forever rest in peace.

Posted by The TJMK Main Posters on 08/28/10 at 05:43 PM in Justice systemsItalian system



It’s good to see Meredith’s face, thanks, Peter. She is the real story.

Amanda Knox was a firstborn, Meredith was not. Birth order determines the particular struggles a person faces. There are different rites of passage for people of different birth orders.

Dethronement of the firstborn. (substitute AK for firstborn and you see the parallel)

Their rite of passage decision is: “It’s OK for someone to reject me.” The firstborn must accept rejection as a normal part of life rather than something to feel bad about. Firstborn needs to learn that, “You don’t need to control others’ opinions about you.”

Having “lost” mother’s love to the baby, the firstborn looks for ways to get it back by being good, showing off, or doing what mother wants. This becomes a lifelong pattern of catering to others’ emotions to get them to feel good toward the firstborn.

The firstborn feels guilty if others show signs of displeasure toward him. Firstborn feels entitled to respect that, when it’s not forthcoming, makes firstborn angry.

The desire for respect is rooted in a deeper desire for love, and is a substitute for it.

To dissociate from that anger, the firstborn needs to recognize that anger is not going to get love nor earn him respect. The firstborn needs to know it’s OK to have respect, but the way to get it is to show love, not rage.

Amanda had hurdles to leap emotionally that she could not clear. Instead these hurdles slammed her to the ground. Emotionally she was writhing, wounded, and confused by the time household conflict erupted in Perugia. She was also guilt-ridden with some reason. All in all she was a raging maniac at the time she killed Meredith.

Bruce Fisher seems to deny there was any blood mixture of the two young women! Let me remind him it took only 1, count it 1, speck of blood and that almost invisible to the naked eye, to refute all Thomas Capano’s lies. That was the blood of the young woman he murdered at his house in Delaware. Of course like most killers who hate to see their lovely home marred by their insanity, he did a laborious clean-up, then dumped the body at sea. 

The innocentistis are like a family who make lasagna but live isolated. They think there are no other people in the world who make lasagna.

I also agree with Mimi that AK struggled with seeing her mom in honeymoon mode just as AK should have been reaching that joy in her own life. Mom rejects her just as Dad did, and the bedroom becomes a symbol of displacement and disorder, as acted out with MK.

Posted by Hopeful on 08/28/10 at 06:48 PM | #

By Storm Roberts (Innai)

Thank you, Hopeful. 

I am glad you mentioned Dr. Stefanoni.  I have always found the comments made elsewhere questioning her work particularly galling.  From what I have seen she has done an excellent job - as a scientist she reports facts and it is up to the court to evaluate those facts and work out how they fit into the picture of the crime overall. 

No forensic scientist goes to a scene looking for evidence either for or against any individual, they go to the scene to collect evidence and then present that evidence to the court - there is no bias in the science nor is there bias from the scientist. 

Facts are facts, evidence is evidence - the court hears how the prosecution fits the evidence together and how the defence interprets the evidence and weighs both sides of the argument and draws it’s conclusion. 

Science is independent.

Posted by Nolongeramember on 08/28/10 at 09:14 PM | #

Thanks to you too, Hopeful. You never ever fail to surprise and cast light on these important dimensions which SOMEONE needs to be considering if there is to be eventual closure all around.

The surging advances in social psychology these days has been a main subject on serious late-night chat shows here with Nobel Prize winners and so on contributing. Birth order is clearly being taken extremely seriously as a main predictor of mature personality and life pattern.

Several of us just did this personality test. Simple, but it correctly indicated the birth order of each of us.

And here are some birth order traits. Under US hiring laws questions on dimensions like this are not allowed but people who hire a lot (as I did in the UN) usually have a sixth sense anyway.

My experience was that pretty well everybody is potentially useful and I was time and again surprised at precisely who would suddenly out of the blue made a key contribution that would move everything forward.

Clearly Meredith had a huge sense of purpose and was going for her goals with an astonishing drive. Watching her perform in a team situation for real 5-10 years out would have been really something. My guess is she would have absolutely excelled.

Amanda in contrast seemed and seems to have almost no sense of purpose, particularly no extension of it beyond herself. Plus that turmoil. No natural team behavior, no desire by others to draw her in - if anything, in Perugia quite the opposite, she seemed headed toward being widely shunned.

My guess is Amanda has a lot of contempt for the team that tries to multiply themselves via her now. She shows none of the hostility to Italy that they show. Maybe she will choose Italy as her lifelong home? Especially as she’d presumably be a registered sex offender back in the US if all her appeals fail.

Italian prisons will give her more team support and treatment and skill-building opportunities than typical American prisons ever will. I think she may already sense that she must pay her dues to Meredith, and that prison is a needed phase that ensures she will.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 08/29/10 at 05:49 PM | #

Of course they will lolllz  

If she had murdered in the US she´d probably be on death row by now !

Posted by aethelred23 on 08/29/10 at 08:29 PM | #


Peter and aethelred 23, I agree, Italian prison is much preferable to an American cage. Maybe even a civilizing effect.

This Kafkaesque case…

The appeals basically have one part that asks the prosecution to prove any prior lying by RS or AK. Look at RS’s fascination with serial killers, AK’s rape stories, her wicca religion. That seems to foreshadow a dark side, makes lying look mild.

E-search with 2 words: wiccan Harry Potter. That proved a frightening gloss. In dabbling with such stuff, AK made herself the victim of an ancient and profound evil.

Posted by Hopeful on 08/29/10 at 08:54 PM | #

By Storm Roberts (Innai)


I don’t want to bring religion to this forum, but please, my religion is not evil, it is peaceful and respectful of all life.

Evil is human, and it can manifest whatever religion or belief system a human belongs to.

Posted by Nolongeramember on 08/29/10 at 09:36 PM | #

An email from one of our posters in Rome remarks that this really is a closed case there, rarely in the news any more, and a main reason (along with it all having been so accessible in Italian) is that the judges and prosecutors and police scientists who were on this case are all among Italy’s most prestigious.

Murders only very rarely occur in Italy (see here) at a rate only 1/5 that of the US’s, and he knew of no convictions overturned on appeal due to care taken. He could not conceive of these particular judges and prosecutors and police scientists being declared to have got it all wrong.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 08/30/10 at 01:05 AM | #

By Storm Roberts (Innai)

Reading the Massei Report, it is clear how detailed and thorough the court proceedings were.  The evidence was heard and thoroughly questioned by both sides and the level of consideration given to every detail is admirable. 

The Italian people and press have had this report in their native tongue for several months, it does not surprise me that, having seen the detail of the Report they believe that justice has been done and that the case is, as you say Peter, closed.

Posted by Nolongeramember on 08/30/10 at 12:21 PM | #

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