Trial: One Very Peculiar Witness Gets Even More Interesting

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Sounds like a nightmare witness to me. Why call someone who is only likely to be picked apart on character grounds? Even if he did see the breakdown truck, how crucial is he as a witness overall? I wonder what he has to gain, and why the prosecution are bothering with the seeming weight of evidence as it stands. Can anyone enlighten me?

A nightmare witness is what they encountered at the last trial!

From the point of view of this trial he may - may - have seen Guede and the two defendants together. Not many people had reported doing that, and it was earlier claimed that neither of them knew him.

And he may have something to say on states of mind and timelines. Odd guy for sure, a possible loose cannon, but I wouldn’t count him out as a witness.

In the watch and wait category.

Wonder if he was a coke dealer to Guede or the Sollectio/Knox team.

Was there any evidence that Sollecito or Knox do cocaine?  If this is the only guy that can testify that Guede and Knox and Sollecito knew each other then he is the key witness for the prosecution, as without him, there is no evidence to support any conspiracy theories..ie…that these three knew each other…much less agreed with each other to sexually assault and ultimately murder Kercher.  Additionally, he would be the only person…according to what I’ve read…and I have no personal knowledge….that could place these three together on the night of the murder…which IMHO would be fairly necessary to secure a conviction in this case.

As to the “coke”...isn’t Guede the drug dealer?  Hadn’t he been convicted for drug dealing before?  I haven’t read anything that suggests Knox or Sollecito were involved in cocaine…were they?

Does anyone know if they found the coke in one big lump or in separate wraps? If they found it together it may have been for (fairly chronic)personal use, if they found it in wraps he was almost certainly dealing.

In reply to TruthSeeker, I don’t know of any evidence that Knox, Sollecito or Guede ever used cocaine. There may be evidence that we have not seen yet. In any case, it is one more element in the puzzle.
Knox herself has spoken of Sollecito’s past drug use and he is known to the police of Bari as a user. That was reported some time ago in the Italian press.

As for Guede, he has never been convicted for drug dealing (and had no prior record of arrest or conviction before he was arrested for this series of crimes). My sources say he was known to local Perugian police in much the same way that Sollecito was known to his local police, except that he was more likely to sell a bit of pot on the side than to use it. At least as far as police were aware.

In his 106-page ruling (summarized on this site), Micheli did not seem to think that an eye witness placing the three together on the night of the murder was a critical factor. For him, forensic evidence places all three at the scene of the crime and that perhaps speaks louder than eye witnesses.

Also, the most recent testimony indicates that, contrary to what the organized Knox defense effort has claimed for months, Knox and Guede did know each other.

Finally, although the witness Kokomani is clearly problematic, he is not the centerpiece of the prosecution’s case. And although many elements of his story don’t add up, one that does could be important: his cellphone was pinged in the vicinity of the cottage on the dates and times he said he saw the suspects. This is significant in part because he lives quite a distance from there.

Why does it matter whether this guy was a user or a dealer?  The facts seem to be as were stated in the magistrate’s report that this guy seems to have rather poor credibility.  Weren’t Knox and Sollecito reportedly smoking hash on the night of the murder?  To me…there’s a difference between hash and cocaine as from what I’ve learned hash generally causes people to become more passive and cocaine, especially if mixed with alcohol, generally causes one to become more aggressive and violent.  At any rate, whether he uses or deals is not the real question.  The real question is why he ever appeared in the case in the first place.  How did he come with such..as related in Magistrate Micheli’s report..a bizarre story?  Well, perhaps it was the drugs.  Yet, why would the prosecution believe him at all?  And, is there evidence that either Knox or Sollecito used cocaine?  I’ve read a lot about this case and I haven’t seen any reports of that.  That’s why I was surprised that they would be hanging out with Guede…a known drug dealer…yet if someone has info they were involved in cocaine themselves..then it might make more sense.

I don’t know how important it is to show that all three of them knew each other before the fateful evening.  Three people can conspire as long as there is one common connection between two of them.  Their common connection beforehand would be helpful for proving 1st degree murder.  That is still not necessary through other evidence - such as bringing a large kitchen knife to the crime scene.  Kitchen knives have no sheath and typically would not be carried for self defense.

As to the witness, the prosecution controls what he will testify about.  It can limit it to a few questions about the broken down lorry. This may be desirable to corroborate another witnesses testimony.  If this prosecutor is crazy, he’s crazy like a fox.  I wouldn’t expect him to give the defense much leeway with this guy.

Thanks Skeptical Bystander.  Interesting.  Are there witnesses who will testify that Knox and Guede had a closer relationship than what has been reported elsewhere?  And, was Sollecito known to use cocaine?

TrughSeeker wrote: “That’s why I was surprised that they would be hanging out with Guede…a known drug dealer…yet if someone has info they were involved in cocaine themselves..then it might make more sense.”

Why would it be surprising for a drug dealer and drug users to hang out together? It makes perfect sense to me!  In any case, cannabis use does not cause the kind of memory loss that Knox and Sollecito initially claimed to account for gaping holes in their alibis. If the memory loss is real, then it could suggest that other drugs were involved.

Last I heard/read, Sollecito is leaning toward remembering that Knox was with him all night, but still isn’t 100% there. That, to me, is about as plausible as Kokomani’s story about the olives. As Arnold Layne suggests, and given that Kokomani was in the area at the appointed time, he may be used to corroborate the testimony of others who saw the vehicle break-down.

Hi TruthSeeker,

Knox and Sollecito are not on trial for conspiring to sexually assault and murder Meredith Kercher. Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult charge to prove. They are being tried for sexual assault and murder.

Knox and Sollecito claim they had smoked cannabis on 1 November. However, I wouldn’t trust anything they say as they’ve both lied deliberately and repeatedly to the police and have admitted doing so. They also very conveniently can’t remember very much about the night of the murder. Although, they did remember enough to give triple alibis.

Perhaps, you would like to offer an explanation why Knox and Sollecito not only gave conflicting witness statements, but also gave completely different accounts of where they were, who they were with and what they were doing on the night of the murder.

Incidentally, people have committed murder after having smoked cannabis.

Amanda Knox admitted that she was at the cottage when Meredith was murdered in her handwritten note to the police on 6 November. This has been corroborated by Rudy Guede, who also admitted he was there. Guede has testified that he, Knox and Sollecito were all at the cottage when Meredith was killed. There are 23 separate pieces of forensic evidence that support Guede’s claim that they were all present.

Hi Arnold…yes but I would think the defense could impeach this guy with his former testimony…isn’t that so?  And, I would think it unlikely that two people would help a stranger to murder anyone..and that’s why it was important for me to determine whether or not Knox, Sollecito and Guede knew each other prior to this horrifically fateful night.  It makes the prosecution’s case more believable..to me…if Knox, Guede and Sollecito knew each other..rather than if they just happened to meet up that night.  SB’s response that Knox and Guede might have been together before…well I’m surprised that testimony wasn’t in the magistrate’s report…that would make the prosecution’s theory far more believable….and would lend credence to the magistrate’s theory that Knox opened the door for Guede.  There just seems to be so much conjecture upon the part of all to me.  Didn’t it take Guede quite a long time to ever implicate Sollecito and Knox in this crime?  And, if so, why do you think he didn’t just incriminate them immediately?  And, why do you think Knox implicated her boss…during one of her confessions…instead of Guede?

Thanks “The Machine”....my theory as to the number of confessions given by Knox and Sollecito…interrogation methods…and there is a plea from a journalist….being spread online..who had been arrested in Italy after having been interrogated for three hours by the prosecutor in this case…to help with the abusive interrogation prodecures conducted by Gialiano Muglino (misspelling)...upon his journalist friend who has been imprisoned for five years now.  I know interrogation methods can be brutal and can cause a person great confusion…wanting to be released under the force of pressure of arrest…can cause some people to say just about anything.  I’ve never heard of a violent crime committed by anyone who was under the influence solely of marijuana…interesting…I guess anything can happen.  Have you read the report of Douglas Peterson who is making a plea for other journalists to help him in the fight against abusive interrogations by the prosecutor in this case?

“Didn’t it take Guede quite a long time to ever implicate Sollecito and Knox in this crime?  And, if so, why do you think he didn’t just incriminate them immediately?  And, why do you think Knox implicated her boss…during one of her confessions…instead of Guede?”

Maybe because if Guede incriminated them and they subsequently confessed, they may have then incriminated his role in the crime even more. Knox may have wished to point the investigators away from Guede because if caught, Guede would be more likely to incriminate her? That’s how I imagine it to potentially be. I don’t think Knox thought things through properly when she blamed Lumumba, if the confusion/police force/memory loss reasons are not real.

Hi TruthSeeker,

Knox and Sollecito both lied before they were questioned by the police, so their lies cannot be attributed to “interrogation methods”. Besides, neither Knox and Sollecito have pursued any official complaints about their questioning. In fact, Knox’s lawyer, Luciano Ghirga, categorically stated that Knox had not been hit by the police despite the frequent claims by her parents and the Friends of Amanda.

Why do you think Sollecito told the postal police that he had called the police and that he and Amanda were waiting for them when this wasn’t true? Sollecito admitted in his witness statement that he hadn’t called the police before the postal police turned up at the cottage and he claimed he had lied at Knox’s behest.

Sollecito told Kate Mansey from the Sunday Mirror that Knox and he were at a friend’s party on the night of the murder. He still doesn’t have a credible alibi. He definitely was at his apartment, surfing the Internet from 11pm to 1am.

Knox told the postal police that it was usual for Meredith to lock the door, which was flatly contradicted by Filomena, one of the Italian housemates. Knox also claimed that she had found Meredith’s body, which is clearly not true. She claimed that she had a shower on 2 November, but also told one of Meredith’s friends that she didn’t have a shower because of the blood in the bathroom.

There is no disputing that Knox and Sollecito both lied deliberately and repeatedly, and they both lied before they were questioned by the police. The only plausible explanation for their lies is that they must have been involved in Meredith’s murder.

No judge or jury are going to believe that the postal police, the Perugia Flying Squad, the Italian housemates and Meredith’s friends are all lying and that Amanda Knox is telling the truth, especially after it can be proven that Knox has lied repeatedly and she has admitted doing so.

Hi Bluebird…I only just recently read about this case, so I’m a bit confused as to all the facts.  Yet at any rate, from what I’ve read Guede didn’t incriminate Sollecito and Knox until he learned that they were under arrest…and then he tried to pin everything on them. He was evidently picked up solely because his blood/DNA was inside of Ms. Kercher’s body. Your theory certainly makes good sense…about pointing them away from Guede!  So sad that the boss was implicated…yet interrogation methods…there had been that phone call…from Knox’ boss to her…where she said “see you later”...and the police thought that meant they were planning on meeting later…and, although my opinion might be unpopular on this website…after reading that journalist’s account of his own interrogation…I would say it is at least plausible that Knox was being forced to admit that her boss was the perpetrator in this crime.  Some people,when scared enough, will say anything to make the terror stop…and some can even be brainwashed to believe that what the person is trying to force them to say or think is true…is actually true.  Originally, Sollecito and Knox made similar statements..didn’t they?  The way the writer/journalist made things sound…he was basically forced to say things…...so that he wouldn’t be arrested, then he was arrested anyway,and then eventually released…and he basically cannot go back to Italy.  Yet, he is very concerned for his friend who has been imprisoned for five years.  Reading that caused me concern about the interrogation methods that might have been employed in the present case.  Also, reading the magistrate’s report that there had to be more than one person involved in this crime intrigued me, does anyone know why he thinks that?  I mean obviously we see killings and murders on T.V. all the time…bloody messes…where there’s only one perpetrator.  In fact, it seems rare for there to be more than one perpetrator, unless it is a gang or cult activity.  Someone wrote yesterday that Knox was like one of the Manson girls.  Was she known to be a member of a cult?

Hekuran Kokomani was arrested when the carabinieri police investigating a drugs case paid a suprise visit to his apartment and found 8 grams of cocaine in a drawer. The police also search another foreigner in the apartment at the time.
Kokomani in front of the Gip Paolo Micheli denied any responsibility for the drugs, arguing that he had remained away from the apartment for about ten days. Judge Micheli has validated his arrest and is being held in Capanne prison.

Capanne is getting a bit crowded.😊

To Peter Quennell..

You are an amazingly witty and brilliant writer! And, you’ve done a phenomenal job with this website. I’m very sorry for the tragic loss of Meredith Kercher.  So very sad. And, I think it’s wonderful that you are questing for true justice, and I do hope that justice prevails.  I saw a picture online of Meredith’s father and how relieved he seemed with Guede’s conviction.  I’m wondering whether the Kercher family believes that Knox and Sollecito were involved in this horrible crime?  Do you know?

Hi TruthSeeker,

I have some more questions for you:

Who removed Meredith’s bra some time after she had been killed and why do you think they did this?

Who staged the break-in and why?

Who put Meredith’s clothes in the washing machine, which had just finished its cycle, when the postal police arrived?

Who put Knox’s lamp on the floor in Meredith’s room and what do you think it was used for?

What were Knox and Sollecito doing with the bucket and mop outside the cottage when the postal police turned up?

Who cleaned the trail of bloody footprints leading from Meredith’s room, along the corridor and up to the blue bathmat in the bathroom?

Why isn’t there a single one of Knox’s fingerprints in her own room and just one of her fingerprints in the entire cottage?

Hi “The Machine”...

Great questions.

I don’t know who removed the bra or why they would remove it?  What are your thoughts on that?  Why would anyone remove a bra from someone who had been killed? Were there any fingerprints or DNA on the actual bra? 

Isn’t the staged break-in just a theory?  And, why if Knox did stage a break-in, does her mother say that Knox called her and said the front door was open when she got home?  If Knox staged a break in…wouldn’t she have told her mom someone broke in through the window?

As to Meredith’s clothes.  Don’t you think it would be odd to wash the clothes and not the bra?  And, if the bra wasn’t washed, then most certainly it would have blood on it, don’t you think?  And, if the clothes had blood on them, I would seriously doubt the blood would come out in the wash.  Did the clothes test positive for blood?

I have no idea about the lamp.  What do you think?
I haven’t read anything about a lamp in anything that I’ve read. 

I can’t answer the other questions, other than it seems Knox and Sollecito were cleaning up the cottage…and I guess that’s why the time of the phone call from Sollecito to the police would be so important, right?  I think it’s amazing that only one of Knox’ fingerprints could be found in the entire cottage.  yet, I wonder why, if they were cleaning up evidence, why they didn’t flush the toilet?  And, I wonder maybe if, perhaps, a maid could have come the day before…then Knox wouldn’t have any fingerprints around, if she had been staying at Sollecito’s.  Obviously, if Knox’ prints weren’t around, then no one’s were around, because she couldn’t just erase her own and no one else’s.  What about the DNA evidence?  What kind of DNA evidence do they have matching Knox with Kercher’s body?  Any?  Just wondering.  Thanks.

Were there any bloody prints from either Sollecito or Knox in Kercher’s room?

And, by DNA evidence I mean….99.9% matches..the kind of match that got Guede convicted.

“The way the writer/journalist made things sound…he was basically forced to say things…...so that he wouldn’t be arrested, then he was arrested anyway,and then eventually released…and he basically cannot go back to Italy.  Yet, he is very concerned for his friend who has been imprisoned for five years.”  (Truth Seeker)

I think you’ve been reading too much fiction, TruthSeeker. I for one believe that Doug Preston grossly exaggerated his experience to sell more books, and that he has also instrumentalized the Meredith Kercher tragedy to the same end. It is shameful, if you ask me.

Did you know that in an early interview he actually said that Mignini was only doing his job and that he was a good prosecutor? Did you know that Spezi and Preston’s Italian publisher said that they should have come forward with their information rather than running a parallel investigation? She said it was just a typical clash of male egos, and I think she’s right.

Did you see the ludicrous interview Doug Preston gave online, the one where he offered qualified reviewers copies of his upcoming book, in which he said he could just tell by looking at a photo of Sollecito that he was innocent?

Frankly, I think that Doug Preston is interested in two things and two things only: getting even with Mignini (or maybe he’s just worried they won’t let him back into Italy when Tom Cruise goes there to make his Monster of Florence movie) and making a lot of money on his book. I don’t think he’s too interested in Meredith Kercher.

By the way, for someone who claims to be new to this case, you sure do have all the Marriott/FOA talking points down pat. You should contact that group and see if they are looking for new recruits.

Machine,

The “cleaning.”  I read that Knox’ mom told her to call the police upon seeing that the front door had been left open.  Perhaps, she was cleaning up before they got there?  I don’t know..of course, none of us do…but the ones who are actually involved.  I read the report about why the police thought it wasn’t an actual break in, yet my conclusion based upon what I read would have been the opposite of what they concluded, yet I really don’t see why that’s so important, given what will be the uncontroverted testimony of Knox and her mother that the door was open when she got home…ie…it seems that neither Knox nor Sollecito claimed that anyone broke in…and please correct me if I’m wrong.

Also, I’m curious to know how much blood was on the pathway between Kercher’s room and the bathroom…curious because was it so much that any reasonable person upon returning home would have seen it and immediately called the police? Or, was it such a minute amount that one could have easily overlooked it or just thought that perhaps one might have stumped one’s toe and it was no big concern.

Judge Paolo Micheli, who had full access to the prosecution’s 10,000 page report, believes that Knox and Sollecito removed Meredith’s bra because their DNA is on the bra clasp. Patrizia Stefanoni has categorically excluded the possibility that any of the forensic evidence has been contaminated. Dr. Renato Biondo, head of the DNA Unit of the forensic police, has provided independent confirmation that the forensic results are accurate and reliable.

Judge Micheli asked the question: Who came back to the cottage, cut off Meredith’s bra and moved her body some time later? He didn’t think it was Rudy Guede because he was seen by two witnesses running away from the cottage at approximately 10.30-10.40pm. He went home, cleaned himself up and went to a disco. Judge Micheli reasons in his report that it could only have been done by someone who knew about Meredith’s death and had an interest in arranging the scene in Meredith’s room. He concluded that it must have been Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.

It’s indisputable that the break-in was staged. There were shards of broken glass on top of Fiomena’s clothes, which had been thrown around the room to give the impression that there had been a robbery. There were marks on the inside of the shutters which proved that the window had been broken from the inside.

The most pertinent question about the washing machine has to be: Who started the wash that morning? It wasn’t Filomena and Laura. Knox was the only housemate who was definitely at the cottage that morning. Why would she wash Meredith’s clothes?

Why didn’t Knox phone the police when she saw the door was open and the blood splattered bathroom?

Didn’t a burglary actually take place?  I’m basically asking…why would Knox or Sollecito stage a break in when Knox had reported that the door was open when she got home?  It just doesn’t make sense to me.  Yet, not much does make sense about this entire case.  Also, why is it important who put the clothes in the washer?  Obviously, Sollecito or Knox put them in there…I would ask if they were mingled with other clothes, had they been sitting in the washer or in the wash room or are you suggesting that Knox and/or Sollecito had to go into Kercher’s room in order to retrieve her clothes to put them in the washer?  Why that is important to me is because Sollecito and Knox have claimed the door to Kercher’s room was locked.

Don’t you think they would have thrown that bra away if that were the case?  Or thrown away the clasp?  Why leave the clasp behind on the floor if the reason they took the bra off in the first place is because they feared they might leave prints or DNA on the clasp? I’m sorry, I don’t mean any disrespect towards Magistrate Micheli, but I don’t see the logic in that at all.  Do you?

Why didn’t they just get rid of her body then?

“Don’t you think they would have thrown that bra away if that were the case?  Or thrown away the clasp?  Why leave the clasp behind on the floor if the reason they took the bra off in the first place is because they feared they might leave prints or DNA on the clasp? I’m sorry, I don’t mean any disrespect towards Magistrate Micheli, but I don’t see the logic in that at all.  Do you? (Truth Seeker)

Why are you looking for logic anyway? Do you think that to be true, something must be logical? What makes you think that whoever cut the bra off even realized that the clasp had gone missing? Or cared, if the idea was to make it look as if it had been ripped off with violence. The bra was removed to simulate rape.

Why did they leave the clasp in the room? Perhaps in their haste they forgot to go back and retrieve it, or perhaps the draft created by the open window blew the door shut before they had completed their task, or perhaps they did not want to touch it once it had fallen. As Jumpy suggests, maybe the ultimate goal was to get rid of the body but that fell through. There are lots of things that could and might have happened. Reality is over-determined, as Freud said.

And people sometimes do things that make no sense whatsoever.

Maybe some of these riddles and unknowns will be revealed as the trial proceeds. Stranger and more illogical things have happened.

Indeed, if the intention was to simulate rape and leave items of evidence that support this reading, then there would be no reason to dispose of the bra. On the contrary. So this could be one more piece of supporting evidence for staging.

Skep,
I totally agree.  The killers tried very hard NOT to leave evidence.  But they did.  There is nothing perfect about any crime, and luckily the people investigating and gathering evidence are professionals.  It is not the first or last murder they will have to break down.  And every scenario that we try to imagine they have gone back and forth on as well. But as someone said on an earlier post, all roads travel back to the same place.

To get back to the topic of this blog entry, Kokomani may or may not prove to be a valuable witness with regard to understanding what happened to Meredith Kercher.

As you say, Jumpy, there is nothing perfect about any crime and that includes the crime of simulating a rape or a break-in.

People make mistakes, do things that aren’t logical, tell some people one story and other people a different story.

Actually, what is most striking is how increasingly bizarre this whole case becomes with each passing day. Witness arrested for cocaine possession, suspect speaking out for the first time to offer clarification on a vibrator, etc.

I was looking for the logic in Magistrate Micheni’s conjectures and in the police work upon which he based his report…that led to the detention of Knox and Sollecito.  Such as, thinking the break in was staged because the clothes were scattered and the glass was on top of them.  If the person was a messy person, it would only be logical that the glass would be on top of the clothes and items. It’s a trial, you get to question the witnesses and the police work…you can impeach their credibility just as much as you can impeach anyone else’s..or at least blow holes through their theories.  No one is perfect and there just seems to be so much conjecture in this case. 

A simulated break in and a simulated rape?  This young woman was brutally assaulted…Guede’s DNA is inside of her body….there was money missing….Guede was seen out on the town later..he is a known drug dealer..there’s nothing simulated about any of that..and there’s a dead body..certainly nothing simulated about that. You wouldn’t need to rearrange things to look like there was an attack….because…gee golly…...there WAS an attack! 

Someone wrote that Michelini said the suspects possibly cut off Kercher’s bra because they might have thought their DNA was on the clasp.  I personally believe that that makes no sense…given that the bra and the clasp were found at the scene.  My argument goes towards Michelini’s report..the one that landed two people in custody and now in a murder trial.  My whole point is that whatever Michelini has written is not necessarily “the truth”..it is only what he has deduced from what has been given to him…and I’m only saying that it doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

As for the vibrator, why does that even matter in this case?  It almost seems to me that people have been hell bent on destroying Knox…since she first arrived in her flat.  Does anyone disagree that it seems the flatmates really didn’t like Knox even before the murder took place?  Does anyone on this site personally know Knox?  Personally know Kercher?  Personally know Sollecito?

Whoever said logic doesn’t matter…I’m not looking to the logic of the suspects…I’m looking to the logic of the man….Magistrate Michelini…..who wrote the report that ended up resulting in Sollecito and Knox being charged with murder…as well as to the logic of the professional investigators who seem to go to great lengths to complicate and to confuse what appears to be a typical drug murder scene….wherein DNA has been found in the victim’s body…that confirms the identity of the perpetrator…whose DNA was evidently on file…given that that’s the way Guede was brought into the case..through tracing his DNA. Plus, there is money missing…and Guede fled to Germany….yet Knox and Sollecito did not flee..nor did they appear to look rattled in the video taken when the police were searching the house.  I believe Knox looks sad in the freeze frame of that video…sad and concerned is what I see.

Bizarre…I completelly agree with…....it started off with the accusation of a satanic sacrificial sex ritual…at least they’ve backed off of that…thank Magistrate Michelini for that!  That was the idea of…well..the man who is objecting to being called “mentally unstable”.......he’s the one who proposed that this was a conspiracy involving a sexual sacrifice of some sort, right?  So, this case began in a bizarre way…and I pray that logic end it…and that the truth come out..and truth can only be deduced through logical argument…and without truth there is no justice…..and I’m sure you guys want justice..and not just the convictions of Knox and Sollecito….am I right about that?

TruthSeeker, you need to do your homework. The name of the Judge is Micheli, not Michelini or Micheni.

The people here want justice for Meredith Kercher: if that means a conviction for Knox or Sollecito or both, then so be it. If it means their exoneration, then so be it.

It seems you have either not taken the time, don’t want to read carefully, or perhaps come here with a loaded agenda of talking points. You seem to have a lot of FOA talking points for someone who just stumbled along yesterday. Incidentally, that is one of the standard lead-ins used by FOA. They pretend to be only recently acquainted with the case. The last one said he had been laid up ill and therefore had time on his hands.

Anyway, it is a predictable script, except for your last paragraph about logic and truth and the relationship between them. Did you know that you can have 100% internal consistency between a set of statements that is false?

Some crimes make no sense and therefore don’t obey the dictates of pure logic. This may be one of them or it may not. What the people here agree on is that a good faith investigation was carried out by a competent prosecutor and then validated on several different occasions by different judges.

Let the court decide and let the focus not be on us and our motives. We don’t matter much. Don’t you agree?

Truth Seeker wrote: “You wouldn’t need to rearrange things to look like there was an attack….because…gee golly…...there WAS an attack!”

Perhaps instead of making sarcastic statements like the one above you could start looking at the evidence and testimony of witnesses that have stated that the break-in WAS staged. The way in which the supposed ‘burglary’ appeared would not have been logical, it’s not possible, it’s not even theoretically possible. Rudy Guede had no reason to go to the cottage alone that night and no reason to break into the apartment through that window or for that matter to attack and kill Meredith Kercher.

As for the rearranging of the crime scene to stage a rape there is plenty of research and plenty of crime scene experts who have seen staged rapes that looked very similar to the crime scene officers were confronted with that day. I agree, there was no need to cut off Meredith’s bra so why did they find it HAD been cut off, why did they find RS DNA on the bra strap? Why does the blood evidence indicate the bra had been cut off AFTER the attack had taken place what would be the purpose or significance of this? Investigtors are in charge of trying to fit the pieces of this puzzle together in order for it to make some kind of sense, this does make some kind of sense, would you agree? Disputing that this actually happened is sloppy and a childish rejection of the evidence put forward so far.

The best thing that the prosecution can do is cut Kokomani loose.  He’s about as much use as a witness as I am, and I was 1500 miles from the scene of the crime! There is a shed load of other evidence piling up and screaming for a Knox conviction (my personal jury is still out on just how involved Sollecito was), why involve the unreliable cokehead who can’t be sure what day he saw people, if he saw them at all?  I’m only interested in Kokomani if he has evidence to the effect that Amanda, Rudy & Raf bought drugs from him, what those drugs were and how regularly they stocked up from him.  If they bought coke on 1st November, THAT would be serious evidence.

Kokomani would have been completely discounted as a witness had he not reported the presence of the breakdown truck (at a time when only those present would have known about it) and because he claimed to know Guede before.

Why did he come forward?. If he was present, perhaps he wanted to get his version in first. Did he come forward after it was known that Amanda had falsely accused her boss ?

Personally, I am happy that RS,AK,RG and HK are all in jail, until we get the truth.

Kevin wrote: “Why did he come forward?. If he was present, perhaps he wanted to get his version in first. Did he come forward after it was known that Amanda had falsely accused her boss ?”

That made me smile. I hand’t thought of that one.

One theory why various witnesses have come forward so late is that they thought they had something to fear. Papa Sollecito seemed to have powerful connections here and there.

Also Kokomani is believed to have told friends of his experience right after. The police maybe hearing this and coming looking for him might have worried him. 

I doubt Kokomani will get anywhere near a witness stand without very careful preparation and any drugs or alcohol out of his system.

And as Daisy says, his testimony may be overkill anyway after the hard-evidence phase of the trail coming up.

Re: Conspiracy

I agree that they are not charged with “Conspiracy”.  It is probably not the best word to have used since it is also a specific legal term.  Here’s is my thinking:  If four people go into a room and only three come out with no one implicating another, how do you determine who did what?  In one of the hearings that preceded the trial, the judge determined that all were involved and none acted passively.  Only one person actually plunged the knife into her neck.  If one person in a group kills another in the commission of a felony, all can be charged with the victim’s murder.

If the prosecution can show that they went there with an agreement to commit a crime I think it makes it easier to get a conviction for the murder.  I don’t think they “conspired” to kill Meredith.  It may not even be that they went there with any bad intentions at all.  In that case, you have to show who did what to a greater extent.  On the other hand, if it can be shown that they went there with the intention of committing a crime, a murder conviction for all is a very likely outcome.

Conspiracy

Guede was convicted of murder despite Micheli believing that he wasn’t responsible for the fatal blow. The number and type of wounds to the body led him to say others were involved. Micheli saw it as an escalation rather than preplanned crime, although switching off the phones and taking a knife from RS’s place need explaining.

Trigger for escalation - I think I was wrong on this

I’ve just read a statement that Amanda made back in September about money ... remember Rudy claimed at one stage he heard Meredith saying ‘we’ve got to talk’ (about missing money).

Amanda said she had over 4000 dollars in the bank and had just withdrawn money for the rent. This would have been checked and makes sense, since they were at the beginning of the school year?.

Its still possible that there was a row over Meredith ‘stealing’ Amanda’s job, or maybe her inviting Guede around.

Why was the murder committed in Meredith’s bedroom?. Did she ask Amanda in to talk about something? A murder by an intruder could have happened anywhere in the house.

Fear

In Italy there is a widespread belief that good connections can fix anything for you, especially in the circles RG and HK mix.

When the postal police arrived unexpectedly, even at that late stage, RS phones his sister (A lieutenant in the carabineer) before calling the local cops.

None of AK,RS,RG or HK seem to be able to give a straightforward, coherent account, even after 15 months. I’m sure fear is a factor, but I’m not sure what of.

In addition to the witnesses’ testimony already presented, there is one more fact to keep in mind, Guede was already found guilty.  Any proven connections of RS or AK to him can be very incriminating.  This is why Sollecito distanced himself from Guede on day 1.  It may also be why Mignini needs his testimony. 

btw   Did anyone determine who the mysterious lurker was?  Also, as far as the crime scene breakin goes, I understand leaving knives, but why candles??

Knives and candles. It is rather interesting. It wouldn’t be the first time a mysterious knife has turned up at the cottage. I’m referring specifically to the infamous ‘butter knife’ that was ‘found’ in the garden of the cottage by Raffael’s lawyers, supposedly om information Raffaele had given them.

The theme that seems to run through this case is certainly knives. The knife/knives Meredith was stabbed with and subsequent bloody knife stain on the bed, the DNA kitchen knife at Raffaele’s, the butter knife in the garden, the box of knives from Germany under Knox’s bed and know these knives that were left in the cottage. Perhaps the house should be renamed the ‘House of the Flying Daggers’ instead of the ‘House of Horrors’.

Some comments on the knives and candle found at the cottage after this ‘break in’. Knives, along with candles, are central to ceremonial magic in witchcraft. The number of knives also being four, corresponding with the number of occupants (one for each) who lived in the cottage is rather suggestive. The fact that the knives were left, indicates they were brought to the cottage for a specific purpose related directly to the cottage, as opposed to being in transit elsewhere for example. The other factor is the 3 cigarette butts. Unless whoever smoked them suddenly decided to quit, then they weren’t there for very long, perhaps only long enough to vandalise the cottage and do whatever else they had come there to do and then they left. Logically therefore, the evidence would indiacte either:

a) The intruders had forced entry in order to conduct some form of magical ritual.

b) The intruders wished to create the ‘appearance’ that the purpose of the break in was to conduct some form of magical ritual.

In witchcraft, especially the darker side, the drawing of symbols in some substance is a common feature. These appear to be absent. The other standard, is once having cast the spell, the paraphanalia used in the spell is seperated and put away at distance from each other. These items were left.

The evidence, what we currently know of it, therefore supports conclusion ‘b)’. However, if it transpires that all the items were spread at distances from each other all around the cottage (seperation), then that would support conclusion ‘a)’.

If it is a), then we have to ask ‘why?’. If it is b), then we can write it off as some magical practitioners and maybe also nutcases, attempting to influence case with magic. How important one finds that, depends if one believes in magic or not 😊

They should be able to pull DNA off of the saliva on those cigarette butts. Leaving those behind wasn’t too bright.

Michael, where does witchcraft enter into this?. I’ve only read that:

1. The breakin was thru the kitchen window, which faces onto the terrace.

2. 3 big kitchen knives were found, very visable on the floor of the kitchen, another was found on a piece of furniture at the entrance to one of the bedrooms.

3. One knife was on top of a blue plastic envelope, with ‘State police’ written on it, used by the police to collect evidence, but not used by the local police. One was taken from the kitchen sink, the rest were probably taken from a bag that was already in the house, but it is not exculded that some were brought from outside the house.

4. A used candle was found, with wax being found in the room Meredith was murdered, but the police are still investigating this.

During the last hearings, the 2 italian girls and Amanda were authorized to get back certain things remaining at the house. It was during this operation that the breakin was discovered.

The reason for the breakin is unknown .... with what we know, it looks more like a kids ‘dare’ or an attempt to influence the next stage of the trial, when the phyical evidence is presented?.

RS’s lawyers are using it to ‘confirm’ that anyone could breakin and tamper with the crime scene.

For weeks after the murder the house was watched 24/7. The last check was back in January.

Please forgive me addressing the vibrator. I think some people miss the point. It doesn’t matter to anyone in the slightest whether or not AK had a vibrator.

If the condoms and vibrator were in this transparent washbag along with soap, toothpaste, etc. I don’t think anyone would have particularly noticed at all. If they were contained in a transparent bag on their own, that would be weird. Looky looky I’ve got a sex bag. Yep, that’s my bag for sex. A quick poll of friends confirms that most (all in my sample) wouldn’t keep it in the bathroom at all but somewhere in their room, in a drawer or bedside table.

Well, I’m not saying witchcraft ‘is’ a factor, simply that at the least, someone wanted things to ‘appear’ that way. Of course, since I wrote my post, news has emerged that almost all the items came from the cottage itself, rather then being brought there. This actually works against there being a real rite being performed there, since any self respecting magician would bring their tools with them, rather then trusting to luck they’d simply find them in situe. However, the deliberate distribution of the knives, along with the candle use (wouldn’t any self respecting intruder come pre-armed with an electric torch?) would suggest someone wants us to ‘think’ some sort of occult activity was going on. If they simply wanted to corrupt the crime scene, vandelism would have been enough, moving placing knives about and lighting candles however, do not currupt the scene in themselves.

As you say, it could simply be a prank, but a rather sick one if it was. Then again, it could also have been a serious attempt to influence the case. Whatever, the defence teams have certainly been given a lot of ammunition that they can get mileage from if they spin it the right way, which they are starting to do already. It of course ‘may’ be just a happy coincidence for them, along with Kokomani having drugs ‘suddenly’ found at his apartment just as the trial has started to get going, just as was a butter knife being found in the garden by Raffaele’s lawyers some months ago. We are all also aware of the propensity of amazing coincidences associated with our suspects in this case…

Michael

This thread ain’t long enough yet.  Michael - good point on the vibrator.  Truthseeker - It wouldn’t be important except that this is the only think Amanda has spoken up about.  She’s n trial for her life and this is what she thinks is the most important bit of testimony about which to make sure everyone is clear.  If this were a novel, I’d probably put it down at this point and say that it is all to improbable.

Michael,

I’d agree with that. however putting a flowerpot through the window suggests to me that a sick prank is the most likely explaination.

The method of entry ... climbing up the grating to the terrace, then breaking the kitchen window, seems to support the prosecutor’s argument that there were much easier methods of entry for any intruder on the night of the murder, i.e. more support for a staged break in?

A quick heads-up that we’re finding out all we can about the break-in at the house and we will post an analysis in a day or two.

And thanks a lot for the conjectures posted here, they sure are proving interesting and helpful.

Where next:

Or to next entry Trial: Newsweek Reports On The Perugia Progress So Far

Or to previous entry Trial: Defendant Noticeably Bubblier Than Meredith’s Sad Friends