Sunday, December 20, 2015

Latest Of The Documentaries That Make Us Focus On Psychopaths And Their Trails Of Wreckage

Posted by Peter Quennell

This is a one-hour YouTube video of an excellent BBC Channel 5 report aired several weeks ago.

Our poster DavidB kindly drew our attention to it in a comment. There are increasingly more of these heads-up reports on YouTube, some of the most useful videos there.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/20/15 at 06:05 PM in Various hypothesesThe psychology


Nice link, Pete.

Robert Hare is very well known in Canadian circles, and is seen as ‘‘the’’ authority in these matters.

A distinction is made between being a criminal psychopath, and a non-criminal psychopath.  A very important one.

‘‘Industrial’’ or ‘‘soft’’ psychopaths as the documentary calls them, definitely do exist as well.  I’ve worked with (and for) a number of people who were superficial, fake, charming, but with a malicious side to them.  This applies to both men and women.  Sadly, those are the kinds of people who usually go far.

Posted by Chimera on 12/21/15 at 09:10 AM | #

Sorry, the cart’s before the horse on our chat about psychopaths. My fault.

This video seemed timely because SeekingUnderstanding etc had provided some important insights into Martin Shkrelli, the NYC psychopath du jour.

Here was the first mention with some links on Shkrelli, several other posts follow.

Lower down SeekingUnderstanding and others began to hold Shkrelli up to the light.

Subsequent news reports are making him look worse and worse, a narcissist on steroids who had no problem seeing patients ending up dead.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/21/15 at 06:48 PM | #

Thanks Chimera.

These public instances of exposure are great learning experiences.

In large development processes which often involve thousands, those seriously perverse usually turn out to be only 5% of the whole.

But their stopping power can be immense if they cannot be cordoned off (as for the most part they can).

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/21/15 at 06:54 PM | #

It is a good programme, well worth watching.

Thankyou to DavidB for bringing to attention, and Pete for making it available.

It covers many of the crucial points we have discussed, especially over the last year or two. It is worth bearing Knox in mind as one listens!

As well as Prof Hare, Prof Adrian Raine is on the video. He is the one I mentioned last year, who wrote ‘The Anatomy of Violence’, and discussed various biological aspects to the condition.

The role of amygdala is discussed, as well as other parts of the brain involved.

And it looks at where the research is heading - and acknowledges how important it is for us to deal with the problem.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 12/22/15 at 11:54 AM | #

This BBC Channel 5 report on Psychopathy focused on a widely accepted diagnostic checklist and on a convicted criminal who had the highest possible checklist score.

It left me with a degree of dissatisfaction; OJ Simpson was included but the viewer was left dangling with the statement that OJ was/is a psychopath, the fact that his criminal-case jury-verdict was Not Guilty, but with no further OJ discussion.

I did not get a satisfactory answer to the Question “What is to be Done?”

Many people do psychopathic things, but do not qualify for the title “Psychopath”.

In England & Wales, if you had neighbours who persistently and intentionally disturbed your peace you could attempt to enjoin them legally by requesting the issuance of an AntiSocial Behaviour Order (ASBO).

In 2014 this was replaced by the “Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 which received Royal Assent in March 2014. “this streamlined the tools available to tackle anti-social behaviour and replaced the ASBO with an Injunction (a civil offence) and a Criminal Behaviour Order” (CBO).

Apparently these Orders are much abused, and work poorly.

Again What is to be Done?

Posted by Cardiol MD on 12/22/15 at 12:25 PM | #

I have a similar level of unease/discomfort/dissatisfaction with the “what is to be done?” question.

We seem in western society to be in thrall to the individual rights of perpetrators, too often at the expense of victims. This is a growing problem and our apparent unwillingness to tackle it now is storing up enormous problems for the future.

I often wonder about the credulity of the Knox faithful and what drives such bovine behaviour. I’ve come to the conclusion that the Knoxen most likely come in two flavours. One, they appear relatively high up the psychopathy scale themselves. Or two, they just aren’t too bright. Some may be a mix of both.

The brighter they are, the higher up the psychopathy scale they appear, hence bona fide whack jobs like Annella are more psychopathic than some of the thick drones like Nancy Parker, who probably isn’t psychopathic at all. In short, Knox really only appeals to lunatics and idiots. I think it’s that simple and I refuse to engage with either type online these days. It’s too soul destroying.

Back to Cardiol’s open question. I think the clamour from those of us who live within the normal range of behaviours (who after all form the vast majority of society) for proper action to be taken will eventually win the day. I fear though that the pendulum will swing too far the other way and the reaction, when it comes, may end up as bad as some of the crimes. Time will tell but this status quo simply isn’t good enough.

Posted by davidmulhern on 12/22/15 at 12:53 PM | #

A very interesting doc.
While watching with interest it kept coming into my mind how many boxes regarding the killer of Meredith Kercher - Amanda Knox where ticked. It is another chilling example of injustice in this tragic case.
I would dearly like to see the psychological evaluation report of Knox and her partner in crime Sollecito which resulted in the cruel sick druggies being held in prison.
I am sure they would have used Dr. Hare’s method of evaluation.

Posted by Deathfish on 12/22/15 at 05:05 PM | #

I’d like to offer a glass-half-full answer to Cardiol’s timely questions; I’d suggest first to read this post on encouraging global trends.

Building on that, these would be my points, case-related and system-related.

1. We should note that Knox and Sollecito never ever fooled a court on a level playing field, and the great mass of the Italian public were never fooled either. Italian crime-fighters and the public both did essentially size them up correctly.

2. It was only manipulation by personality types not dissimilar to RS and AK that have both walking free. We should probably note and track that “gang effect” more in the postings.

3. Italian moves to tighten the systems are already happening and the routes to liberation followed here are closing off. While Italian justice is still very pro-perp and thus, though not intentionally, anti-victim, it is becoming a little less-so.

4. Full system change is technically very difficult and there is a school of thought in business (which I adhere to) that beyond tweaking, existing systems are almost impossible to change and one is better served to start over.

5. Results of system-change can take years to ripple out and fully pay off. The Europe-wide UN program I was in (the UN has more countries in its Europe group than the EC does, and actually does more) jointly developed various vital systems, mainly in networks of institutes, and more than a decade later I still get feedback on myriad good things happening. 

6. In addition to technique, the drivers of change really matter.

7. Ultimately the “best” driver because everyone has a stake is economic. Fast economy-wide growth and firm-level growth happens best when there’s a very high level of teamwork. Italians fit very nicely into national and international teams. The justice reforms now in parliament are above all driven by a lack of economic performance and one major cause is pretty obvious to outside investors:

8. But broad public perceptions also matter. American mass psychology is in parts pretty addled (not least by unscrupulous billionaires deliberately) but on cable-TV the US has several dozen crime shows daily, many focused on psychopaths, which are educating at least some of us. Sooner or later, this Perugia case is going to become a staple of those crime shows, and some time next year we could see it on major national broadcasts (no hints as to which ones; sorry, Marriott).

Plus RS and AK are almost guaranteed to be in slow mental breakdown. Time is absolutely our friend here.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/22/15 at 06:02 PM | #

Just a quickie Peter regarding the crime shows you mention.

Where I am in the world CI is shown everyday.  It is interesting to note that 2 Knox employees appear regularly.

Anne Bremner and Jim Clemente, the latter always wearing a sky blue pork pie hat like that of a clown.

They both in every segment they appear in totally contradict what they have stated with regards to the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Both state evidence with regard to other killings as slam dunk evidence of guilt yet with regards to Knox the almost identical situation is questionable and Fellini forensics.

Then we have to factor in the talking heads that they are and how they appear to the American public to realise why they where hired in the first place.
Filthy lucre for filthy liars springs to mind.

Posted by Deathfish on 12/22/15 at 07:21 PM | #

Hi Deathfish

Can you recall how often and how recently they appeared talking about Knox? Any transcripts?

Grahame Rhodes often tracks such things for us. The more we hear about this the better.

Bremner gets destroyed when Wendy Murphy appears. Paul Callan destroys Steve Moore.

Jim Clemente takes as gospel what Saul Kassin and especially John Douglas claim.

Their starting point was Knox’s false claim of an “interrogation”.

Saul Kassin has been frightened off, and I thinks now faces (and fears) reality.

Taking down the claims of John Douglas (in two books) is one of our immediate projects.

This will leave Jim Clemente unsupported and looking foolish, including in FBI eyes.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/22/15 at 07:59 PM | #

AK is still trying to peddle the idea via her Facebook page that she is part of the ‘false confession’ camp rather than admitting to being a lying chancer who framed her boss. With typical sleight of hand she publishes ‘2015: A year to remember in false confessions’, reinforcing the falsehood that she was coerced. Coercion being a very real and frightening technique employed by a minority of corrupt law enforcers, it is easy to garner the sympathy of the naive camp followers who fail to recognise they are still being played. The absence of any concern for Meredith (bleurgh) contrasts sharply to her faux empathy for all the innocents falsely imprisoned. Oh wait, that would be her.

Posted by pensky on 12/23/15 at 12:50 PM | #

Pensky, I totally agree. She has no remorse for Meredith.

The author ‘Nick Van Der Leek’ writes about how an innocent person accused of such crimes would be angry with the Italian justice system.  But she never shows any.

Posted by DavidB on 12/23/15 at 02:32 PM | #

Thanks a lot Pensky for this. Valuable feedback, again.

In 2011 Fuji showed (via duped psychologist Saul Kassin!) that Knox falls far outside the false-confessions-prone “target group”. She is almost the very opposite in fact.

We’ll create a false-confessions hoax category within the Hoaxes group in the right-column links. Nail her with this if you see a way?


Okay as promised the new false-confessions link is created in the right column and it is used in our current heads-up box and latest tweet.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/23/15 at 04:56 PM | #
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