Hit Early And Hard, Italy’s Systems Now Seen As The Best In Europe

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After much drama on late-night American TV The White House is reported as testing positive. Those needing to quarantine may be in the hundreds.

https://tinyurl.com/yxrerxco

Hmmmm. Sorry, but one disrespects systems at one’s real peril. Good systems are the sweet spot. Not current right-wing or left-wing politics.

Fortuitously, Italy now has a right wing/left wing coalition.

Below, on virus protection, some links to past takes, which seem to have stood up okay. These trend might be worth mentioning too.

(1) In the US media there’s finally more talk about diminished blood-oxygen levels as the earliest warning, and oximeters are being waved around on TV. But have most people got one? I dont think so.

(2) Also there’s still-too-occasional warnings about the Abbot “instant” antigen tests - which seem to have fooled the entire White House.

They are proving to be simply wrong maybe 40% of the time, and really only the PCR tests (which need up to a day for the DNA to multiply) give reliable results.

(3) We’ve also been offered several phases of thinking about masks.

Phase I was about not inhaling the virus droplets in. No-brainer there.

Phase II was about not exhaling the droplets out, as we may be symptomless carriers, or in early infection, and thus putting others at risk.

Phase III is also about reducing viral load. One is unlikely to escape the aerosol spread altogether, it’s in buses and elevators and air conditioners and so on. But one really doesn’t want to inhale millions of the viruses all at once, a too-heavy viral load.

Neither the cheap single-use masks nor the cheap washable textile ones seem as good at warding off a heavy viral load as the various activated-carbon ones, four or five ply.

https://tinyurl.com/ycsxcmmx

https://tinyurl.com/y9py5zgm

https://tinyurl.com/yd78ux5y

Re Italy and systems: here’s one that Italians are now adopting in spades:

https://tinyurl.com/yyqhzx73

Thanks for posting that info on the virus again, Pete. We have been taking most of those supplements, including the NAC. So far, so good!

I also appreciate your breakdown on the value of masks. Luckily, they are mandatory in my state. Most people here have been compliant, thankfully, although this week I saw a woman pull her mask down in the grocery store. I kept moving!

Talking of systems…

Here’s some smart and well-researched new advice by Dr Kelly Hernandez to where the COVID may be most lurking.

She is clearly thinking “avoid that aerosol cloud” which is a better way of thinking than “you are safe at six feet”.

Click through to the original (well, maybe the original, it’s already viral) for several links and many images).

https://tinyurl.com/y55tf8se
https://tinyurl.com/y63subh9

35 Places You’re Most Likely to Catch COVID
Before you step out, read this essential ranking.
Kelly Hernandez
September 5, 2020

If your town is like most areas, local businesses, such as retail stores, bars, and restaurants are probably starting to open their doors. As excited as you may be to revisit your favorite local establishments or get together with friends and family, it’s important not to become lax about the COVID-19 pandemic. Check out these 35 places you’re most likely to catch COVID so you can better understand the risk associated with your activities. Threat levels are provided on a scale of one to 10, with one being the safest and 10 being the riskiest. These levels are estimated using CDC guidelines and the Texas Medical Association’s risk rankings. Read on, and to ensure your health and the health of others, don’t miss these Sure Signs You’ve Already Had Coronavirus.
 

1 Going to a State Park
Threat Level: 2

With wide open spaces and outdoor recreation areas, a state park may seem to be one of the safest places to visit during a pandemic. However, there are spots to watch out for as you explore your local state park. Restrooms, visitor centers, or popular attractions may be crowded, making it hard to socially distance.

“Check with the park or recreation area in advance to prepare safely, use social distancing and avoid crowded parks, wear a mask, and clean hands often,” the CDC suggests. Consider visiting the state park at off-times and heading to attractions that aren’t as popular.

2 Getting Gas
Threat Level: 2

As long as you don’t choose a crowded gas station that prevents social distancing, you should be relatively safe pumping gas. However, it’s important to consider all the hands that have touched the pump and buttons before you. “Use disinfecting wipes on handles and buttons before you touch them,” the CDC recommends. When you’re done pumping, use hand sanitizer and don’t touch your face until you can thoroughly wash your hands to lower your risk.

3 Browsing at the Grocery Store
Threat Level: 3

Most grocery stores have strict guidelines in place that require mask wearing and social distancing. However, if someone isn’t following the rules or the store is more crowded than usual, you may find yourself at risk for contracting the virus. The more time you spend extremely close to people who may be infected and are talking, coughing, or laughing, the higher your risk for contracting the virus.

“Going to a market briefly, for five minutes or a transient encounter while you walk or run past someone, those are low risks,” according to Dr. Muge Cevik, MD, MSc, MRCP(UK) from the University of St. Andrews. When visiting a grocery store, grab what you need and head out so you don’t spend additional risky time in a crowd.

4 Taking a Walk
Threat Level: 3

A nice walk outside is a great way to clear your head during this stressful pandemic. But it’s still important to follow social distancing and mask guidelines in your area to prevent the spread.

A study published in Physics of Fluids analyzed respiratory droplets from sneezes and coughs. The study found that a human cough can expel droplets from 10 to 250 meters per second. If you’re planning to take a relaxing walk, try to choose a path that’s not very crowded and always practice social distancing.

5 Hiking
Threat Level: 4

When you head out to the great outdoors for a hike, you may assume you’re safe from COVID-19. But if you’re hiking on a crowded trail, you’re still at risk. Wearing a face mask and staying six feet away from other hikers reduces your risk. “When you venture outdoors, try to only spend time with people within your household,” warns the American Hiking Society. If you follow proper protocol, your risk remains low but it’s important to follow your local government’s regulations.

6 Staying at a Hotel
Threat Level: 4

Before you plan a vacation, it’s important to learn more about your destination and how it’s faring through the COVID-19 pandemic. If you travel to an area with a high transmission rate, you’re putting yourself at higher risk for contracting the virus than if you stay in your hometown.

If you do plan to travel and stay in a hotel, check with the front desk about sanitizing procedures. “When I came in, I would also wipe things down, possibly with alcohol wipes — particularly high-touch surfaces that would have me touch something, then touch my mouth, like a hotel bathroom sink,” says Mercedes Carnethon, Ph.D. from Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine.

7 Taking Your Kids to a Playground
Threat Level: 4

The amount of risk you take on when visiting a local playground with your children depends on where you live and how crowded the park may be. “Avoid crowded parks, wear a mask as feasible, and stay home if you are sick,” is the advice provided by the CDC in regards to visiting playgrounds and local parks.

8 Attending a Farmer’s Market
Threat Level: 4

If your local farmer’s markets are open for business, you may assume it’s safe since these events are usually hosted outdoors. However, your risk for spreading COVID-19 at a farmer’s market is only low if your local government enforces the proper protocol for vendors.

For example, at farmer’s markets in Washington, “businesses will not be able to serve customers or visitors who aren’t wearing face coverings,” according to the Washington State Department of Health. Consider how closely your local farmer’s market adheres to social distancing and mask guidelines and ensure you feel comfortable with the risk before visiting.

9 Walking Through Downtown
Threat Level: 4

No matter where you live, downtown areas are usually synonymous with crowded sidewalks and bustling businesses. These populated areas can make it hard to socially distance. While most areas implement face mask wearing guidelines when it’s hard to socially distance, not all patrons follow these regulations.

If you plan to visit your local downtown area, wear a mask and attempt to social distance as much as possible. Try to visit the area at a time that’s less crowded, such as a weekday afternoon.

10 Going to an Art Museum
Threat Level: 4

In many areas, art, history, and science museums are experiencing a phased reopening. The guidelines they’re required to follow may vary by location but most include mask mandates and social distancing. Some museums may use a reservation system to ensure they can follow these regulations.

For example, New York museums are allowed “25% of maximum occupancy, inclusive of patrons/visitors, who must only be permitted entry into the institution if they wear an acceptable face covering,” according to the Museum Association of New York. If you’re worried about the COVID-19 risk associated with visiting an art museum, review the establishment’s guidelines first to ensure you feel safe and can enjoy your time.

11 Waiting in a Doctor’s Office
Threat Level: 4

Most doctor’s offices are still encouraging virtual appointments but there may be some instances when you need to see your doctor face-to-face. Your doctor’s office is likely to be implementing strict regulations, including wearing a mask and socially distancing from other patients.

For example, John Hopkins Medicine claims it has “carefully planned and taken extra precautions to help ensure that we are doing everything we can to minimize any risk to our patients and staff members.” They’re focused on keeping facilities clean and testing staff for COVID-19 regularly. While being in a waiting room with potentially sick people is risky, you shouldn’t avoid the doctor if you need medical treatment.

12 Visiting a Library
Threat Level: 4

While some libraries may be opening their doors to the public, there are other ways to borrow books or use library services without visiting the establishment. To minimize risk, visit your local library’s social media accounts or websites to browse the online services offered.

Libraries are prepared to see a “potential increase in that online traffic and the interest in some of these online support services,” according to Catherine Rasberry, Ph.D. from the CDC’s Division of Adolescent and School Health. You may be able to choose your books online and pick them up curbside, which reduces your human-to-human contact and your risk for potentially contracting the virus.

13 An Indoor Baby or Bridal Shower
Threat Level: 5

You never want to miss a family member or good friend’s baby or bridal shower but this indoor event may come with a high risk of spreading coronavirus. You’re 19 times more likely to catch COVID-19 from someone when hanging out at an indoor event as opposed to outdoors, according to a study that analyzed virus transmission in Japan. This may be because infected respiratory droplets can’t disperse as easily indoors.

14 Shopping in a Retail Store
Threat Level: 5

Packed retail stores are a thing of the past and more shoppers simply don’t “browse” anymore for fear of increasing their risk of contracting the virus. When you shop in a retail store, it’s best to grab what you need efficiently to reduce potential exposure.

Retailers know the importance of safety and efficiency. A study from Ipsos found that “61% of consumers are still delaying brick-and-mortar retail for fear of getting sick.” The survey also found that 62% of consumers are taking their health seriously and will switch retailers if they feel a store isn’t taking the proper safety precautions, such as mask mandates and social distancing. Be picky about where you shop and be quick when picking up your goods to reduce your risk.

15 Hosting a Cook-Out
Threat Level: 5

If you plan to host an outdoor cook-out with only a few friends who you know haven’t been exposed to COVID-19, your risk remains low. However, keep in mind, the more attendees you invite to your cook-out, the higher your risk for spreading the virus. Opting to keep everyone inside without social distancing also increases your risk.

Before planning a get-together at your house, you should review your local and state COVID-19 guidelines, consider your risk for severe illness, and consider your household members’ risk for severe illness, the CDC suggests. Everyone should also stand six feet from one another.

16 Working in an Office
Threat Level: 6

If you’ve returned to work in an office environment, it may be nice to see your co-workers in person and not over video chat. But it’s still important to be careful about spreading COVID-19. If you share office equipment or chat with co-workers who aren’t wearing masks and one of them has COVID-19, it could easily spread to you and throughout the whole office.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) published “Guidance on Preparing Workplaces for COVID-19” to help businesses reopen safely. The organization urges employers to develop strict employee interaction guidelines, emergency response plans, and policies that isolate sick workers to help stop the spread.

17 Going Swimming
Threat Level: 6

“There is no evidence that COVID-19 can spread to people through the water used in pools, hot tubs, or water playgrounds,” according to the CDC. While you don’t need to worry about the water at a public pool, a crowded pool deck may be an issue.

If you’re finding it hard to socially distance while swimming or hanging out on the deck, you’re putting yourself at risk for infection. Consider a pool that’s less crowded or enforces social distancing restrictions more firmly or skip swimming altogether.

18 Going to School
Threat Level: 6 or higher

Many schools are opening across the country, leaving parents to decide whether they feel safe sending their children back to the classroom. There are many new procedures in place, including mask mandates and social distancing guidelines.

“While current evidence suggests that the risk of severe disease for children is lower overall than for adults, special precautions can be taken to minimize the risk of infection among children, and the benefits of returning to school should also be considered,” according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

19 Going on a Trip With Friends
Threat Level: 6

At this point, everyone is getting antsy for a sense of normalcy. If your normalcy involves a fun end-of-summer trip with friends, it may seem safe enough to book a weekend beach getaway by now. But even if your friends are feeling fine, you could be putting yourself at risk.

As much as 40% of people infected with COVID-19 are asymptomatic and have no idea they’re carrying the virus, according to the CDC. If you spend a long weekend in close quarters with a friend who’s asymptomatic, chances are you’ll contract coronavirus, along with your other friends.

20 Dinner at a Friend’s House Inside
Threat Level: 6 or higher

It’s easy to assume that hanging out with a small group of friends at someone’s house is safe. However, the two most important elements to stop the transmission of COVID-19 are mask wearing and social distancing, according to the CDC. If you’re at a friend’s house with someone who’s infected, you’re in a dangerous spot. Chances are your friends aren’t socially distancing or wearing masks while having dinner inside, which may spread the virus to all dinner party attendees—not to mention, there may be poor ventilation. Golden rule: Eat outdoors. Outside is always better than inside.

21 Going to a Wedding
Threat Level: 7

A small outside wedding with social distancing and mask wearing shouldn’t pose a high threat to the spread of COVID-19. However, if you’re attending a large event that’s hosted indoors and doesn’t implement CDC best practices, you may be in trouble. Spending an extended period of time in close quarters with a large group of people affords you the highest risk of catching COVID-19.

“The higher the level of community transmission in the area that the gathering is being held, the higher the risk of COVID-19 spreading during a gathering,” the CDC warns. If the wedding is hosted in an area with high transmission levels, you may want to consider declining the invitation.

22 On an Airplane
Threat Level: 7

Traveling by plane was one of the first activities that became labeled as “dangerous” when the COVID-19 pandemic began. In an airplane, you’re in close quarters with a group of people for several hours, which increases potential exposure.

And it’s not just the plane ride you’ll need to worry about. “Air travel requires spending time in security lines and airport terminals, which can bring you in close contact with other people and frequently touched surfaces,” the CDC states. If you have no choice but to travel by air, keep your hands clean and away from your mouth, wear a mask, and socially distance whenever possible.

23 Hugging a Friend
Threat Level: 7

Hugging a friend hello or goodbye may have been commonplace but in a pandemic, this simple gesture becomes dangerous for spreading the virus. If you’re dying for a hug from a friend or family member, Dr. Todd Ellerin, MD from South Shore Hospital recommends you first consider the person involved, the place you’re planning to hug, and the space you’ll have. Only hug a person you know isn’t sick or wasn’t exposed to the virus and try to initiate the contact while outside and not around other people.

24 Waiting in Line for To-Go Food
Threat Level: 7

We already know that COVID-19 is more easily spread indoors and when people don’t practice social distancing. If you’re waiting in line for to-go food inside a restaurant and close to several people, it can be dangerous for virus spread, according to the CDC. This is especially true if the people around you aren’t wearing masks.

25 Eating Dinner at a Restaurant
Threat Level: 7

A restaurant that’s cautious about COVID-19 and implements the best practices may not be an especially risky establishment to visit. If social distancing guidelines and mask mandates are followed, you’re at a lower risk. Outdoor dining is also less dangerous for the spread of COVID-19 than indoor dining.

However, when you eat at a restaurant, you’re still putting yourself at risk for coming into contact with infected individuals. “Before you go to the restaurant, call and ask if all staff are wearing masks while at work,” the CDC suggests. You should also ask for an outdoor table and skip interactions with a valet service if possible.

26 Getting a Haircut
Threat Level: 7

If you’ve been rocking that COVID cut for a little too long, you may be anxious to see your hairdresser. But getting a haircut requires a few up-close-and-personal moments with your stylist, which can be risky for spreading coronavirus.

“There is no way to keep six feet of distance between you and your hairstylist,” according to Dr. Ravina Kullar, M.P.H., Pharm.D. from the Infectious Diseases Society of America. If you simply can’t wait any longer, ensure your salon and hairdresser are implementing the CDC’s best practices, including wearing a face mask at all times.

27 Playing a Team Sport
Threat Level: 7

Worried about COVID-19? You may want to pause on your team sports for a bit, especially “full competition between teams from different geographic areas,” according to the CDC. Depending on the sport you’re involved in, you may need to be in close proximity with other teammates or opponents from other areas, which can lead to the spread of coronavirus.

“Performing skill-building drills or conditioning at home, alone, or with members of the same household,” is the safest way to continue practicing your sport during the pandemic, recommends the CDC.

28 Getting Your Nails Done
Threat Level: 7

If you’re used to regular manicures or pedicures, you may be itching to get to your nail salon. But just like getting a haircut, this service requires close interaction with other people, which can be risky.

“The biggest risk in a nail salon is going to be sitting close to other people. If they’re not wearing masks, face shields, or both, you could potentially be exposed to infection for a fairly prolonged period of time,” according to Andrea LaCroix, Ph.D. from University of California San Diego School of Medicine. If you’re at high risk for a severe case or you’re worried about contracting the virus, it’s best to stick with in-home manicures for now.

29 Going to the Gym
Threat Level: 8

Gyms and fitness centers have opened in many areas but the CDC is urging gym owners to ensure patrons maintain social distancing guidelines and mask wearing regulations.

“Place handwashing stations or hand sanitizers with at least 60% alcohol in multiple locations throughout the workplace for workers and patrons,” the CDC recommends. If your gym follows these guidelines to a tee and you abide by the rules, you may not be at high risk for contracting the virus during your workout. However, if your gym is crowded and proper protocol doesn’t seem to be in place, consider working out at home to lower your risk.

30 Going to a Theme Park
Threat Level: 8

Theme parks have been opening around the country but their guidelines are a bit different. Some parks use a reservation system or only allow for a small percentage of capacity to encourage social distancing. Mask mandates are also in place at many theme parks.

The CDC warns you’re at the highest risk for contracting COVID-19 if “park operations are open at full capacity with no modifications to allow for social distancing.” If you’re planning to head to a theme park, analyze the park’s guidelines first to ensure you feel comfortable with the risk you’re taking.

31 Eating at a Buffet
Threat Level: 8

While you can’t contract COVID-19 from food, eating at a buffet may be riskier than a sit-down restaurant. At a buffet, you have more chances to interact with other people and if the restaurant is crowded, it can be tough to socially distance. You’re sharing utensils with other potentially infected people so if you touch your nose or mouth, you may contract the virus.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has set strict guidelines for buffets and it “recommends frequent washing and sanitizing of all food contact surfaces and utensils.” However, if you’re worried about coronavirus, it may be best to skip a buffet-style restaurant for a while.

32 Visiting Your Local Bar
Threat Level: 9

Thinking of grabbing a drink at your favorite bar? Even if your local bars are open, it may not be the safest spot when it comes to spreading COVID-19. If a bar allows patrons to sit near each other, the risk is higher, especially if they’ve taken off their masks to enjoy a cold one. Coronavirus is more easily transmitted at a bar when “seating capacity is not reduced and tables not spaced at least 6 feet apart,” according to the CDC.

33 Going to Church
Threat Level: 9

While some religious organizations are still offering online-only services, there have been some establishments that have decided to open. Before attending church, make sure your establishment is implementing the guidelines suggested by the CDC. Social distancing may be tough, especially in a large organization, but it’s important to help stop the spread.

Religious organizations should remain “consistent with applicable federal and State laws and regulations,” according to the CDC. If your church doesn’t seem to be following these guidelines, you may want to skip Sunday service for a while.

34 Attending a Sporting Event
Threat Level: 9

Professional sporting events are currently being hosted without spectators. But depending on where you live, you may be able to catch a lacrosse game at your local college or you may need to attend your child’s pee-wee football game.

Most sporting events are held outdoors, which lowers your risk of virus infection. However, it’s still important to wear your mask and maintain social distancing from other spectators (or parents). “Avoid using restroom facilities or concession areas at high traffic times, such as intermission, half-time, or immediately at the end of the event,” the CDC recommends.

35 Hanging With a Sick Person
Threat Level: 10

Have plans with a friend or family member who isn’t feeling 100%? Cancel. COVID-19 symptoms are varied and may include a headache, fever, runny nose, nausea, or fatigue, according to the CDC. While your friend may think it’s just a hangover or allergies and it’s fine to hang out, you’re putting yourself at risk without a negative coronavirus test. Refrain from hanging out until you know for sure it’s not the virus. And to ensure your health and the health of others, don’t miss these Sure Signs You’ve Already Had Coronavirus.

By Dr Kelly Hernandez

Right now there’s a small uptick in Italy - and a major one in the UK.

The headline of this excellent article among others blames Boris Johnson’s response.

https://tinyurl.com/y2yupumq

But the article itself explains that under the English “constitution” the national public health management system is badly designed.

It is causing a rank amateur (Boris) to be in direct charge of a key mechanism that he knows nothing about.

Similar bad design is pretty blatant also in the US and that is also resulting in a rank amateur being in charge.

And so the two countries blunder on.

Knox has joined the board of the Frederick Douglass Project for Justice. Her photo has her wearing white with long flowing hair like Meredith. The tag by her photo says, “Amanda Knox is an exoneree, journalist and author…” blah blah blah. Exoneree? She was not exonerated, merely acquitted due to lack of evidence.

Jason Flom is also on the Frederick Douglass Project for Justice. His podcast is “Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom”. 

The website says: “The Douglass Project attracts individuals with a passion for justice….” (we all know how sincere Knox is about justice—- NOT)

The founder Marc M. Howard, J.D., Ph.D. sounds like a worthy man however. He was a political science professor who began visiting his childhood friend Marty Tankleff in prison. He dedicated himself to overturning Marty’s wrongful conviction, he even decided to go to law school to help his friend.

Mr. Howard is now one of the country’s most prominent criminal justice and prison reform advocates. He began volunteer teaching in prison and he began to visit prisons nationwide. He has written 3 books. His cause is to “promote the humanity of incarcerated people.”

I can’t believe he allowed Amanda Knox to join the Douglass Project.

She claims that her aims are also mercy and compassion. Mostly she wants to rehabilitate her own image and now is all about not labeling criminals.

She recently for “Crime Story” interviewed Victoria Law and Maya Schenwar on “An Alternative Path to Decarceration”. These women disagree with reformers who want more humane punishments like electronic monitoring, house arrest, extended probation. They think these may exacerbate criminal behavior and are a “prison by any other name”. Ms. Law and Ms. Schenwar promote the abolitionist alternative.

These women want to address the underlying CAUSES of crime. They say violence happens partly due to “deep injustices and oppression and lack of resources.” They are advocating for “a society of abundance” where everyone has

health care
housing
food
access to education
arts
recreation

(This all sounds lovely. Where’s the magic wand?) They have a few good ideas but of course the solution hidden in their plan seems to hint at full blown communism, which is a failed system as anyone can see.

These women say, “The criminal legal system will never put capitalism on trial” and refer to it as “exploitative capitalism”.  I agree with their stance of compassion and looking for creative ways to incentivize good behavior among prisoners. I don’t agree with the “abolitionist” extreme, nor their idea that socialism and a mass redistribution of wealth (code for stealing from rightful owners to give to those who didn’t earn the money, that’s not justice, that’s stealing.) I don’t think abolishing capitalism is the means to a good end.  (See Sept. 29, 2020 Crime Story interview by Knox.)

On the same tune as universal wealth a la Andrew Yang, Knox recently interviewed Brett Watson on topic of UBI:  Universal Basic Income.

Watson studied the impact of Alaska’s annual lump sum payment made to all Alaskan residents, on crime rates. Knox comments in this interview that she is a big fan of Andrew Yang’s proposal of a universal income.

August 17, 2020 Knox writes for Crime Story that she disagrees with the “Karen” label and the CAREN Act which would make racial verbal attacks into hate speech. I agree with her. She said it would lead to vengeance and ostracism not a more harmonious society.

Knox wrote that “labeling and ostracizing people” doesn’t deter antisocial behavior…It doesn’t rehabilitate offenders…” and is an impulse towards “tribal judgement and vindictive punishment.”

Knox said in this August 17 article: “I went to get my blood drawn the other day.” Her nurse was a very kind woman named Karen. “She shouldn’t have to apologize for her own name, much less share it with a newly-minted hate crime.”

I think Knox is worried about her own name.

Knox said, “As Bryan Stevenson, founder of the Equal Justice Initiative, has said, “Each person is more than the worst thing they’ve ever done.” She harps on the possibility of redemption for incarcerated persons.

Hi Hopeful

Despite the hole she is in, Knox never stops digging! As usual this will be a big mark against her soon.

There’s a Breaking News main post (about a big court loss for Sollecito) going up today. Perhaps this could be re-posted under that?

Where next:

Or to next entry Another Sollecito Fail: Court Says NO Malpractice By 20 Prosecutors & Judges

Or to previous entry RIP Meredith’s Beloved Mum Who We Believe Knew Even US Mood Is Turning Pro AK & RS Guilt