Saturday, June 13, 2015

Wide Concern In US At A Killer Groupie Who Helped Dangerous Killers To Escape

Posted by Peter Quennell

We have occasionally dwelled upon what drives killer groupies. The phenomenon is widespread and it has been around a long time.

A desperation for money and new jobs and status. Perversions, chips on shoulders, previous brushes with the law - that last driver actually accounts for about half.

Sheer besottedness is one quite common cause. Some people really do love dangerous jerks. 

Now a killer groupie is responsible for a huge and expensive manhunt, and for hundreds of thousands 250 miles north of New York City and up into Canada locking their doors and buying guns.

They fear an attack, even death, from two dangerous killers on the loose.

The sole cause of their breaking out of a secure prison which had seen no prior breakouts in 150 years is a killer groupie, a woman married with children employed on the prison staff, who supplied them with power tools to cut their way out. and who was to drive the getway car.

Joyce Mitchell has been arrested and charged with a felony and may face eight years inside. [She was sentenced to 7 years, in Sept 2015.]

As she failed to turn up on the night - maybe cold feet, maybe a medical emergency as she seems to claim - the two killers are believed still to be close. Bloodhounds picked up a scent in marshes near the prison only a couple of days ago.

Nice going, Joyce, do call Amanda Knox. Oh, but wait…


In case you wanna ask. No, its not Karen Pruitt moonlighting, we don’t think.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 06/13/15 at 07:10 PM | #

Joyce Mitchell’s husband also works(-ed?) at Dannemora, and is also under investigation.

Our woman-friends say they feel sorry for this Killer-Groupie, but agree that she deserves severe punishment; 8 years seems too mild.

Posted by Cardiol MD on 06/13/15 at 07:45 PM | #

I don’t feel sorry for her. She’s an adult, she knew what she was doing. She allegedly aided two hardened murderers to escape, and her actions may lead to other innocent people dying. Throw the book at her.

Posted by Earthling on 06/14/15 at 01:27 AM | #

FOA is the Joyce Mitchell Club. They need her on their t-shirts, their hero.

She is FOA: blinded by friendship, lust or need for excitement. Baddies feel for other Baddies. They is all bad, one bad happy family.

But unlike some jailbirds we know, Joyce does look truly aggrieved and chastened in her courtroom photos. No grins there. 

She should be assessed for every penny spent on the manhunt.

Perhaps her middle name is Joyce Edda Mitchell.

Could she be married to a Mr. Francesco Sollecito Steven Moore Mitchell by chance?

Position of Trust Joyce flattered by two killers. She does look a bit like Madison Paxton.

Needy people are easily deceived. Now instead of “Zombie” Joyce can sing “everything that kills me makes me feel alive”.

Joyce can write a book about wanting to be Hurt. Frank Sfarzo would approve.

Joyce and FOA, a case of great minds think alike.

Posted by Hopeful on 06/14/15 at 01:56 AM | #

Many on Bruce Fischer’s site also wanted to mount rescue operations 😊

Posted by Ergon on 06/14/15 at 05:15 AM | #

She traded working at a prison for living in one. How stupid can you get.

Posted by JohnQ on 06/14/15 at 06:32 AM | #

This is from an interesting article “Gross Groupies and Gruesome Egos” on female “killer groupies” who the writer divides into death groupies, death row groupies, and serial killer groupies.

One disturbing theory that explains the phenomenon of a DG [death groupie] and an SKG [serial killer groupie], is that the groupie lives vicariously through the murderer. That is, the DG longs to commit an act of evil but lacks the wherewithal [indeed, this likely applies to male groupies too - why else would a consciously “good” Christian like the Rev.Williams be unconsciously drawn to support Knox if he wasn’t driven by his unacknowledged and “bad” shadow self].

Thus they “live” through the inmate. Some people become involved with criminals who have killed only once or twice.  Others prefer serial killers due to the extreme notoriety.  Many SKGs are educated and attractive. Some have money, and some are married. Quite a few are mothers, and it’s often the case that they work in some related field, such as psychology or law enforcement [or the prison service?]. In any event, serial killers prove to be magnets for some people, mostly females, and experts have offered a variety of reasons:

*Rescue fantasies: the SKG believes she has the ability to change someone as cruel as a serial killer.

*Need to nurture: women have said that they see the little boy in these killers and feel an overwhelming desire to nurture him.

*The perfect boyfriend: she knows where he is at all times, and while she can now claim that someone loves her,she does not have to endure the day-to-day issues of most relationships.

*Hybristophilia: some people are sexually excited by others who commit violence.

*Regaining the lost male: some who have been abused, neglected or without a father figure look to the killer to fill that need.

*Low self-esteem: some women believe they cannot find a man and since men in prison are desperately lonely, it’s an easy way to get involved.

*Attention: when they get involved with a killer, people talk about them and often the media puts a spotlight on them.

*Beauty and the Beast syndrome: they like the idea of getting close to danger that will probably not hurt them.

Posted by Odysseus on 06/14/15 at 09:47 AM | #

Ergon: “Many on Bruce Fischer’s site also wanted to mount rescue operations.”

Ergon refers to the “send in the marines” mantra of the tiny roosters and the killer groupies in the media.

You can find prolific examples of this by Googling.  Here are some examples:

Amanda’s parents hope that the secretary of state will support her innocence and bring the superpower’s political weight to bear on its ally. “Now I do want the government involved and I would be very, very disappointed if they did not get involved”, said Amanda’s father, Curt Knox. The appeal is in line with some of the television coverage of the past few months along the lines of “What’s America waiting for to send in the Marines and free the poor woman?” As if Amanda was in the clutches of some despotic regime.

Maybe she did it and then afterwards regretted it. If she converts to Christianity I’m sure George Bush will pardon her and send in the Marines to get her home.

The following people that thinks Amanda is guilty are to dum to understand science stuff and lawyer procedurals. I can understand these procedurals and labs better than most. that is how come I no Amanda is innocent! Send in the marines!

Scary! The Italians must be trembling. Especially at the third one! Some threats received in Italy were more serious, and after one nut raged at Dt Mignini precautions were taken.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 06/14/15 at 05:58 PM | #

The article Odysseus found and linked to is a terrific overview and source of leads for follow-up. The link again:

I do recommend it. Good source for our psychologists especially SeekingUnderstanding and for future posters.

Grahame Rhodes (who was trained in this area, more than Steve Moore or John Douglas ever was) should appreciate it.

Where the writer cuts off is on the new gang phenomenon where dozens of oddballs are trying to leapfrog one another and be the head of the parade.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 06/14/15 at 09:40 PM | #

@Odysseus’ link for krazykillers has much food for thought. It’s hard to know whether to be repulsed by the groupies or sorry for them or completely horrified at how they are self-deceived and have sunk so low as to seek out monsters for approval. Maybe they just want somebody they can despise when the relationship ends and are really proud as peacocks.

Poor groupies, it’s pitiful and loathsome. Think of marrying a conscienceless butcher. These women have been deprived of something, whether it’s love or common sense.

Until the serial killer tries to cut off their ear and pull their teeth out with pliers they will play the idiot.

They seem extremely dishonest or blind to their motives. It is sad.

However, the pity we would feel is sunk by the fact that these groupies have a desire for violence and aggression within themselves but are too cowardly to act. They secretly like it that the killer acts out for them, while they pretend to say tut tut be a good boy. This makes them Knoxian liars, because they wouldn’t like the guy if he weren’t horrible. 

Killer groupies prove an old adage that one is known by the company he keeps.

On the flip side, appearances can be deceiving. Joyce Mitchell who schemed the jailbreak for David Sweat a cop killer and Matt a real beast, she looks pretty sweet and harmless on the surface too, just like Amanda does and like Raffaele does.

What’s his Manga collection morphed into now? No doubt another Brian Tighe knife has been ordered. Is Colin carrying a knife or just pepper spray to defend Amanda or an RPG for drones?

Posted by Hopeful on 06/15/15 at 02:46 AM | #

It was somewhat satisfying to see Joyce Mitchell hands cuffed to her waist, and to read that she was carted off to jail to await trial. 

I’m wondering if they will charge her as an accessory to any further crimes committed by the escapees?

Posted by Mark on 06/15/15 at 06:33 AM | #

“Gross Groupies and Gruesome Egos”: insightful article.  Interested to read of serial killer (groupie?) author, the then 19 yr old Jason Moss, who interviewed various notorious murderers, including John Wayne Gacy, two months before his execution.  Moss committed suicide some 21 years later, reason unknown, in 2006.

What is interesting is, Moss titled his paperback book, published 1999, _The Last Victim_, explaining that Gacy had exerted a dark, magnetic and compelling influence on Moss’ own psychological make up that caused him to ring Gacy frequently up until his death.

Moss believed that he became Gacy’s “last victim” after this face-to-face meeting in prison, in essence being psychologically overpowered by the manipulative, depraved sociopath. For a time he suffered nightmares from the encounter.[2] Moss felt that this misadventure allowed him to understand how a killer’s mind works in controlling the vulnerable and forcing them to submission.

This leads me to posit that another factor that needs to be added to the list in Odysseus’ above quoted article is as follows:

- the independent professional - such as Joyce Mitchell- for example, psychologists, prison guards, journalists, etc, who find themselves pulled into the criminal sociopath’s spell, like a fly drawn to the spider’s web or a moth to the flame.

These characters are often described as being highly charismatic, frequently with a piercing, hypnotic stare, a kind of Svengali, as it were.  For example, Charles Manson and his inexplicably large group of followers (“The Family”), Ian Brady, Jacob Ind, or even Amanda Knox, who boasted of getting thousands of letters from groupies calling her “hot”, etc.

It could be Joyce Mitchell came under a similar spell with Matt and Sweat, undoubtedly borderline psychopaths; one of whom cold-bloodedly shot a policeman in the face, the other callously murdered and dismembered his ex-boss.

Perhaps she felt flattered by the attention.  Maybe they psychologically coerced her with glib sociopathic charm.  It could be she was unwittingly manipulated into doing their will, rather like the respectable middle class Manson girls.

It certainly is bizarre she allegedly agreed to drive the get away car, although she pulled out at the last minute.  Latest reports are that the two killers planned to kill her husband.

Posted by Slow Jane on 06/15/15 at 05:11 PM | #

Hi Slow Jane (welcome), Hopeful et al

Fwiw in my opinion a lot is down to parenting.

Extremely ignorant and unenlightened parents tend to raise their kids with little love and total emphasis on the good/bad dichotomy. Heavy smacks (or much worse) whenever behaviour is expressly labelled “bad” and little in the way of recognition when behaviour is acceptable, never mind when it’s “good”. It’s no wonder that some harbour deep rage and become resentful, growing up with a deep distrust of authority in all its forms. Obviously that’s not to excuse anything, especially when it leads to murder, but it’s a problem: parents and their parents before them, ad infinitum, often didn’t have a loving upbringing themselves so they aren’t <u>wholly</u> culpable. We can always reckon on inheriting a mess, if we’re becoming more conscious.

The English poet Philip Larkin was a notorious cynic and notoriously plain speaking (apologies for the f word if it’s not commonplace where you are) but there’s truth in this:

“They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.”
― Philip Larkin

As has been said here many times, deeper knowledge of the Knox/Sollecito family backgrounds and their early environments would be very interesting.

Posted by Odysseus on 06/15/15 at 08:11 PM | #

The Headline of this piece concerning “Killer Groupies” does of course apply to the ‘Knox Cult’
The same could be said about Jim Jones, Micheal Koresh, Warren Jeffs and several others who’s name I forget including those who committed suicide after self castration so they could go to the secret spaceship hiding behind Halie’s Comet. PT Barnum was right.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 06/15/15 at 09:47 PM | #

Odysseus, we can see there is something not right in Knox’ childhood.  In both of the short stories on Knox’ former myspace page, we have a central character with sociopathic impulses, i.e., they are not like us.

One story, ‘Baby Brother’, is based on a scene purportedly “ten minutes before a body is found”, and we have Baby Brother bragging to big brother, “What you have to know about chicks is, they don’t know what they want”.

Baby Brother then punches big brother in the face.

We can almost imagine her proclaiming the former to Guede & Sollecito, in her attempt to make Meredith “have some fun”.

In the other story, ‘The Model’, the main character, a teacher (?), (Edda?) is being stalked by a sinister unknown person.  The epiphany is, the Edda figure realises the stalker is her own young daughter.

Thus, we can surmise Edda knew from an early age of Knox’ wicked streak.  The reader becomes acutely conscious Knox *is* Baby Brother.

There is another story about the rape of a woman at a party, of which I have only seen extracts. 

Then of course, Knox revealed in court she had been tormented at school with “lesbian” taunts.

In respect of the psychology of Matt and Sweat, a psychiatrist for Fox News writes:

The key to intuiting anything about them is to look at what they have done, not what you or I might do.  Because these two men are very different than we are.

Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team.

And maybe we will never know *why* Meredith was murdered, other than as a cruel enactment of a fantasy horror scene, from Sollecito’s POV, (‘Blood, the Last Vampire’? as hypothesised by the police), sexual gratification from Guede and the ultimate revenge from Knox.

Baby Brother was mortified to be snubbed *again* at Halloween, and some claim she sobbed for two hours over Meredith’s social rejection of her.

Like Baby Brother, Meredith’s killer likely punched her in the face, just like in the fantasy.

We know sociopaths have a strong narcissistic streak and a need to control.  Meredith being gripped or bound at the wrists behind her back and the numerous knifepoint pricks indicates someone with such a nature.

Is it nature or nurture?  Probably a little of each.  I do criticise Edda for trying to cover up, as it does not do anybody any favours.

Posted by Slow Jane on 06/15/15 at 11:55 PM | #

@Slow Jane

I would criticise Edda and Curt too, certainly,  but it can’t be easy to take a straight look at a monster that you’ve unconsciously (for the most part) created.

“They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do…”

Posted by Odysseus on 06/16/15 at 12:27 AM | #

A heads-up. A book of some 300 pages long on Knox’s psychology and that of several of her entourage by a forensic psychologist who has published about deviant psychology before is due out in a few days.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 06/16/15 at 12:52 AM | #

Cardiol MD in a comment at the top mentioned that the husband was somehow drawn in.

That made me think Joyce Mitchell has the Bruce Fischer Syndrome. The adolescent Fischer first publicly emerged slobbering pervertedly over Knox. He put some pathetic arguments on PMF, so pathetic he got laughed off.

Then, as his wife’s family is apparently his sole means of support, he tried to put himself in reverse gear. “Bruce Fisher of New York” suddenly found he had a noble mission to fulfill - sliming half of Italy.

Like a hamster in a wheel he’s been hard at that pretense for five years. Did that get him into Knox’s bed? Is his wife still fooled? We dont know.

But Michelle Moore still is fooled over slobbery “ex-FBI” whose adolescent slobberiness is what got him kicked out of Pepperdine U. .

Now the latest is that Joyce Mitchell planned to do her husband in with the help of her unsavory friends. Presumably he was not in on that.

Wow. Lock the door, Mrs Fischer & Mrs Moore. Lock the door.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 06/16/15 at 03:36 AM | #

By the same analogy, Cassandra Knox, watch out for lovelorn Karen Pruett waiting in the wings to take your place.

Kaypea never tires of telling us all Curt is her old high school flame (in her mind) and Amanda is like her own daughter.

We can almost imagine Kaypea at Curt and Cassandra’s wedding, chomping at the bit to burst through the doors, singing, “It should have been me!  It should have been me!”

Posted by Slow Jane on 06/16/15 at 06:00 PM | #

Hi Slow Jane

That is classic. Pruett above all is a legend in her own mind. Even some in the FOA are scathing about her.

They clearly dont like her bid to head the parade, begun by Preston, then Heavey & Bremner, then Ciolino, then Sforza, then Fischer & Moore, then Girlanda, then…

We have not YET devoted energy to exposing Pruett’s myriad false claims, though we did post this on her dishonest petition.

Unfortunately, it was accepted at the State Department, but they are being disabused of it.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 06/16/15 at 06:52 PM | #

It has always been a question, never answered, as to just why Steve Moore got the boot from Pepperdine? To my mind it seems just too trite that he was fired because he supported Knox. I mean consider it. My bet is that he was caught sneaking into the girls living quarters. It’s got to be something along those lines. His pattern of slobbering over Knox is telling since he has no clue with regard to solving crime. If you ever watched his CNN interviews they are a joke which is why he’s not on anymore. He was laughed off since he insisted that Guede was a snitch against the mafia.

Also he left his highly paid job as a pilot with the FBI (No he was not a criminologist, far from it) Consider that working for the government after he was fired he gave up a huge pension, free medical and insurance plus free trips just about anywhere. No something smells about Stevie Moore. it is really sad when a persons ego is far greater than their talent.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 06/17/15 at 04:03 PM | #

Some indications of the limits on Cassation authority from

(In relation to the Italian Supreme Court):

“.... The Italian Supreme Court does not undertake fact-finding of its own but confines itself to reviewing the legal assessment of a case by the lower courts. The facts established by these courts are binding on the Corte di cassazione, unless such findings are affected by a procedural error pointed out in the statement of grounds for appeal”.

It looks to me that the latest “acquittal” of Knox and Sollecito really does look to be in substantial doubt and should be fair game for a successful appeal and annulment.

Posted by Mealer on 06/24/15 at 07:05 PM | #

Hi Mealer

Great catch, simple and in English. We’ll use that in the coming post.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 06/24/15 at 10:01 PM | #
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