Correcting Netflix 29: Which Took A Harder Line Against Sollecito & Knox? The Prosecutors Or The Courts?
Above and below, one of Italy’s ultra-modern courthouses, this one in Palermo
1. Post Overview
Continuing our series on the myriad ways the dishonest Netflix team misled.
“For The Press. September 09, 2016: The Netflix documentary “Amanda Knox” opens at the Toronto International Film Festival today Amanda Knox. While claiming to be a balanced perspective its producer Stephen Robert Morse had made inflammatory reports about the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini (who was interviewed by the film makers) of “having been convicted of crimes” (he was acquitted) and being “a power-hungry prosecutor running the show”.
That was a press release our Wiki team put out which set this series on the road. If you got your information on the case from Netflix, you may have wrongly assumed it was the demonized prosecutor Dr Mignini calling all the shots. But read Dr Mignini here and here.
And read what Netflix darling Amanda Knox did to Dr Mignini here. (Oh, did Netflix not tell you that?!)
2. Where Power Lies
Prosecutors in the Italian system are among the less empowered anywhere in the world (though usually smarter too). The harder line in the Perugia case was always taken by the judges in the Perugia, Florence and Rome courts.
Judge Micheli was the judge who late in 2008 sentenced Guede (to 30 years) and actually decided to send Knox and Sollecito to trial. (Oh, did Netflix not tell you that?!)
He was one tough judge. Read summaries of his very tough report here, here, and here.
Italian judges are almost all career path (think: carefully trained, and promoted on their merits) whereas almost all American prosecutors and judges are either elected or appointed by the political party in power, at times without even a degree in law.
Italian prosecutors cannot plea-bargain as happens in over 90% of all American cases - resulting in an estimated 200,000-plus sitting wrongly in American prisons. Italian equivalent: around zero. (Oh, did Netflix not tell you that?!)
In his book Sollecito said the prosecution tried to plea-bargain for him to roll over on Knox. Not only was that a lie, but Sollecito has now admitted it was a lie in a Florence court. .
Unlike American prosecutors, Italian prosecutors are forbidden from going on TV or holding press conferences while any legal process goes on.
Italians get to be more objectively and more deeply informed - on the Perugia case they know on average many times what the average American knows - by reading all that the judges put online.
Italian judges repeatedly put reports on the Perugia case online to justify their decisions as they are required by law to do, usually within three months.
Italians by the hundreds of thousands got to read those reports and so they continue to believe in guilt (though a bit less-so for Sollecito than Knox, who they universally believe started the attack.)
How many of those reports (almost all translated and posted on our Wiki) do you think were full translated by the American media?
In fact precisely none. Not one. They didnt even summarise the weird Bruno/Marasca report.
The excellent reporters for the few media outlets in American that tried to describe the whole case objectively did some translation, but translating a 400 page report would provide no income for them and leave little time to report.
Italian prosecutors are monitored and supervised by judges almost from Day One as happened in the Perugia case.
Not just one judge: within the first month alone a panel of review judges checked out how how the first supervising judge (Matteini) was getting on.
Early in 2008 even the Supreme Court in Rome reviewed the strength of the case. (Oh, did Netflix not tell you that?!)
Dr Mignini was indeed the first prosecutor in the Perugia case. But from late in 2008 when a trial became a near-certainty he shared the job with Dr Comodi.
She herself is well known throughout Italy as a fine prosecutor in her own right.
In 2011 new prosecutors (in Florence) took on the Hellman appeal. New prosecutors (in Florence) took on the Nencini appeal. And there were no prosecutors at all at the Supreme Court in Rome in 2012 and 2015 - In each session it was judges who presented the case as best they could.
(Oh, did Netflix not tell you that?!)
3. Italian Process In Summary
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One of our very first posts back in late 2008 was by our main poster Nicki in Milan, an expert in Italian law,. She described where the power in the Italian system really lies:
Much of the US media and some of the UK media - sometimes enthusiastically, sometimes with reserve - has parroted the claim that Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox were “held without charges” for nearly a year.
Perhaps bringing to mind the notion of two innocent bystanders to the crime being arbitrarily arrested? Locked up in cockroach-infested jails by abusive police? Led on by an evil prosecutor with endless powers up his sleeve, and nothing at all to slow him down? Lost and forgotten by any judges in the case?
Well, good luck with that one, if it’s designed to sway the process.
It irritates just about everybody here in Italy, the judiciary and the media included. And it is doing the defendants no good at all.
Negative stereotypes like these really should not be applied to a country that is one of the founding members of the EU, of NATO, and of the European Council, and of the G-7, G-8, OECD, and United Nations (the non-permanent member of the Security Council in 2007-2008).
So for media reporters and commentators, please let us get the facts straight. Once and for all?!
Italian jurisprudence developed from Roman Law. It was shaped in the course of history to become a modern and very fair system. Judicial powers are subjected to a very complex and extremely pervasive set of checks and balances, which really assure maximum protection of every citizen’s rights.
Comparing the US and UK common law system - a model founded on non-written laws and developed through judicial proceedings - with this system which arose from the Roman Law model - based on a written civil code - is really like comparing apples to oranges.
They were both conceived to protect individual’s rights at a maximum level, while seeking justice for the victims. But with entirely different processes.
One is not necessarily better or worse. But there are legal experts who think the Italian system is distinctly fairer - much more weighted toward the defendants. In the US and the UK the prosecutor usually has to make it through only one pre-trial hoop. In Italy the prosecutor has to make it through a whole row of pre-trial hoops.
Let’s see what happens in Italy to the legal status of a person who, while considered a “persona informata dei fatti” which means “a person who could yield useful information” in relation to a brutal murder, suddenly becomes a suspect in the eyes of the police.
If while interviewing the “person who could yield useful information” the suspicion arises that such person could have played an active role in the crime, their status then turns into that of a suspect. The police can then detain that suspect up to 48 hours.
Those 48 hours are the period within which a prosecutor - if he believes that the evidence of guilt is meaningful - can request a validation of the arrest by the Judge of Preliminary Investigation (the GIP).
If the judge agrees with the prosecutor that a serious indication of guilt exists, a warrant for the arrest is issued by the judge, and the person’s detention is thus validated.
Immediately, as soon as the status of “person who could yield useful information” status changes into the status of a suspect, the suspect person has a right to legal counsel. This legal counsel normally immediately appeals for the release of the suspect.
Thus setting in motion what can be a LONG sequel of hearings - for which in US and UK common law there is no such equivalent. Each hearing is headed by a different judge. This judge examines prosecution and defence arguments, and decides if the suspect may be released on any of these bases:
- Seriousness of the clues presented by prosecution
- Likelihood of repeating a similar crime
- Likelihood of fleeing the country during the ongoing investigation
- Danger of tampering with, or fabricating evidence
If every one of the defence appeals fails, in front of a number of different judges, in a number of different hearings, and the investigation is officially closed, the suspect then goes on to a pre-trial hearing.
Once again here, yet another judge rules either to clear and release the suspect by rejecting the submitted evidence, or to send the suspect to trial on the basis of that evidence, thus making the charges official.
Now that the charges are official, the judge can decide if the defendant must await trial under house arrest, or in freedom, of if the defendant must remain in jail.
If the judge, based on their knowledge of the crime and the defendants, estimates that the chances of re-offending or fleeing the country are high, the suspect must remain in jail.
So nobody in Italy can be detained without a reasonable suspicion, a long series of judicial hearings (any one of which could set them free) or eventual official charges.
Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have not in fact been incarcerated for over one year due to zealous police or a bizarre prosecutor or the complicity of a number of judges throughout the process.
They have been incarcerated because an articulate and balanced process of law has officially and very fairly established there are strong indications that they willingly participated in the vicious murder of Meredith Kercher.
Their own lawyers have put up a tough fight for Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox throughout the judicial process. But they have simply failed to convince the judges throughout that process.
One that actually seems strongly weighted in their favor.
Posted by Our Main Posters on 01/24/18 at 02:51 PM in Various hypotheses, Prosecution views, The officially involved, The prosecutors, The judiciary, Hoaxes against Italy, 1 Ital justice hoax, 9 Mignini v Knox hoax
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Dear President Maxey –
I am writing to express my hope that the Amanda Knox event this evening will include an honest discussion of the facts in her case.
I wish I could attend but I am unable to make the trip.
There is a vast amount of evidence that has not been covered by the U.S. media and that deserves to be seen by all who care about truth, integrity and justice. (I have been interested in the case and have been following developments both here and in Italy ever since the 2013 Nencini ruling.)
I am just a reader who wishes to share what I believe are the facts and the truth about what happened when Meredith Kercher was murdered on 01 November 2007.
Roanoke College will be held in high regard if it holds a truth-based discussion with full disclosure regarding the motives of all participants, including RC itself.
Sincere thanks for considering my request.
The case file can be found here:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page
Posted by whatswisdom on 01/24/18 at 07:25 PM | #
Hi whatswisdom
Very nice. The panel or conference idea is coming up more and more. Good notion to push that. This is the first time we have got part of an audience in a skeptical or disbelieving mode despite the efforts of Heavey & Moore, and we could easily have done more. Perceptions of Knox may well play out at Roanoke for months.
We have another month or two of work on the hoaxes and hoaxers and confronting Netflix directly. You’ll see we dont have the critique of RS’s book up yet. After that, we know certain media and law and journalism schools are considering picking up the threads.
The PR has essentially already lost - it was never the factor in Italy anyway, murkier forces were at play. Legal threats against reporters and media have been common, but foolishly threaten us and it all spills out - as it will anyway. For them its deer in the headlight mode.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 01/25/18 at 12:01 AM | #
Guess it wasn’t a rough crowd after all.
Posted by Chimera on 01/25/18 at 09:59 AM | #
I know this is superficial to point out, but AK looks about 45-50 in the photo
Posted by Chimera on 01/25/18 at 10:06 AM | #
It may be superficial Chimera but nonetheless it is the truth. Knox would presumably agree given that the truth is her apparent yardstick these days. Or maybe not…...
The first commenter on the article has made a similar observation with the very apt phrase that “guilt eats soul”. I do believe that having to be in a state of constant hyper vigilance where her fictitious facade of innocence could crumble with an injudicious use of word or phrase, is having a really detrimental affect on her physical health.
Her mental health has always been of the diseased variety but all that extra cortisol now being flooded on a daily basis into her body will inevitably cause heart and blood pressure issues. I believe we are now witnessing the physical manifestation of impending serious ill health.
I can’t think of any other reasonable explanation for such a dramatic decline in her once undeniably alluring physical appearance. She genuinely does look like she’s well into her forties now. From a schadenfreude perspective, it’s all rather delicious!
Posted by davidmulhern on 01/25/18 at 01:22 PM | #
Thanks Chimera
Disbelievers may not have been given any opportunity to throw hard questions. (Were there any questions? Might someone email the reporter?)
Our reader statistics show that readership in western Virginia then spiked and continues. That’s a lot of residents who have now read our quick rebuttal and learned about Knox’s felony conviction, and find themselves staring at, uh, two truths. That crowd size must be close to the audience size, and may already exceed it.
So much for Knox’s truth putting matters to bed for her. The drawing away from Knox continues, for the moment, to be subtle and gradual. It shows up in website threads where disbelievers are confident they won’t be flamed for differing. We do nothing to drive it except post the real truth here and tweet a bit. Whereas the Knox PR is widely known to sow fake pro-Knox comments.
Other than the sustained and dangerous demonization of Italy and Italians (nice work Roanoke for hosting that) the Knox PR and dwindling entourage are now very stuck for anything to post about. None of our recent posts have drawn even the slightest attempt at rebuttal. Almost like deer in the headlights. Perhaps we should rename the site “True Truth”?
***
Our Breaking News box that was up through Wednesday night.
Headsup: Amanda Knox will apparently still be inciting hate-crimes at Roanoke Wed 24 Jan. See this quick rebuttal. Remember she served 3 years for felony lying and owes that victim $100,000. Also remember why she walks free.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 01/25/18 at 02:23 PM | #
Hi davidmulhern.
Sharp insight by davidmulhern. Our posting psychologists expected just such a decline if she was refused therapy - as she was by her own father when she returned from Italy. Curt refused his own suggestion for therapy when Knox was young and a judge ordering that he pay her child support told him he should go and get some.
It cannot help that Knox, being a convicted felon (did she mention or explain THAT truth last night), is somewhat limited in her foreign travel and job opportunities.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 01/25/18 at 02:38 PM | #
If the article posted by Chimera is a more or less report of what was said, then what a disappointment. And that with all the emails sent to Roanoke.
Question to Amanda Knox: ‘why have you never shown even an iota of upset for Meredith?’
Posted by DavidB on 01/25/18 at 03:04 PM | #
TJMK Main Posters did a great job describing the power of the judges.
Many separate judges saw the Knox evidence and concluded she was very likely not innocent. The trials would later try to prove that and as the post above emphasizes, Knox had two good lawyers fighting for her.
The myth of Mignini being a rabid prosecutor is trash and media drama.
***
Knox’s big theme at Roanoke College is that “it could happen to anybody”. “It” being wrongful conviction, frivolous prosecution.
She lies to her audience by default. She wants them to assume that she was just waltzing along far from any crime scene, whistling and minding her business when she was snatched up by a dozen mad hatter policemen and thrown into prison for no reason in the world.
She expects Roanoke college students to believe that fantasy and to fear for their own safety, and to become very paranoid about police.
Knox’s endgame is to sour young students against police and authority, to paint them as malicious mindless zombies who account to nobody before they haul some innocent, uninvolved person into prison and force them to lie, sign coerced statements and pressure them to confess to crimes much like the KGB tactics of the past.
She fails to inform Roanoke innocents that she lived in the murder house, she was found with a mop and bucket on its front porch a few hours before the body discovered inside, and that evidence of a cleanup was proven.
She omits to tell them she told police that she didn’t know where she was (can you buy that, she didn’t know WHERE she was?) on the night of the murder. Her boyfriend said several different things about her whereabouts.
That’s why Knox was pulled out of thin air by blind police investigators, and taken into custody. Why, it could happen to any young woman who might merely be walking down an Italian street shopping and having coffee far from any scene of death. Be afraid, be very afraid.
It happened to poor innocent misunderstood Knox and it could happen to all the young students at Roanoke, male or female. Why the Italian police even cast a jaundiced eye on her boyfriend for absolutely no reason at all. Later of course science proved Meredith’s DNA was on a knife in his apartment, his DNA was on a bra cut off her body for staging of the scene. Imagine that.
It could happen to anyone. Funny thing, it didn’t happen to Laura or to Luke or to Marco Zaroli or to Amy Frost.
Posted by Hopeful on 01/25/18 at 03:25 PM | #
Hi Hopeful
I’ve been thinking about this on and off and believe it’s true and rather shocking.
She expects Roanoke college students to believe that fantasy and to fear for their own safety, and to become very paranoid about police.
Knox’s endgame is to sour young students against police and authority, to paint them as malicious mindless zombies who account to nobody before they haul some innocent, uninvolved person into prison and force them to lie, sign coerced statements and pressure them to confess to crimes much like the KGB tactics of the past.
On top of that, there is a troubling message to American exchange students, the numbers of which are sharply down in Perugia by the way.
It is hard for us to head off these micro-level emanations via a couple of posts and a few emails without being physically there with a whole alternative narrative (the real truth) and a way of conveying it (such as an alt.panel) with an ad in the student newspaper.
Roanoke is made harder because it is a campus in disarray with the heads of the student government and student newspaper both frogmarched out of their empires.
We should get far more traction when we move up a few macro-notches, to the Italian-Americans in Congress for example, and the national Bar Association, and some Ivy League universities that really do do their homework, and some media outfits that would be thrilled to explode our narrative.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 01/25/18 at 08:24 PM | #
Guermantes of PMF shares the Roanoke Times article dated January 25, 2018 titled: “Amanda Knox talk on why truth matters draws crowd at Roanoke College”. The article was written by Amy Friedenberger.
Comments by Johnny Yen offer a scathing denunciation of Knox’s inane protestations of innocence when he reminds readers the Supreme Court of Italy declared that Knox was at the crime scene with her boyfriend, and Court also declared that Rudy was there “with accomplices”.
The comments section will motivate readers of the Knox article in Roanoke Times to dig a little deeper. Johnny Yen links to http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page and he also links to a YouTube video about Knox.
So the Roanoke Times will help get the word out to skeptics of the Knox brand.
Only Knox would have the audacity to wrap herself in a cloak of “Truth Matters” as she travels the USA spewing lies. Truth matters to her like it does to Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey. A con artist will say anything to achieve what they want.
And we know Meredith’s body was moved, covered, staged. That’s because there was a greater risk of leaving it like it was. There was a greater risk of having the body found as it looked when the perps finished with her.
Knox does not look all that great at her Roanoke speech.
A sad day for journalism when not one reporter dares interview one person in the audience with a different opinion from the self-serving pulpiteer Knox. Appearances can be deceptive, all is not as it seems. The Roanoke students need to dig a little deeper to discern if Knox is a truth teller. Then they’ll want to shred her book.
A few intelligent people have seen what was so carefully hidden (to quote a forgotten sage).
Posted by Hopeful on 01/25/18 at 08:27 PM | #
Hi Hopeful
Yes that Roanoke Times report seems the only report still, the same Chimera linked to in the wee hours. The Roanoke college student newspaper has been defunct since 17 December.
The college is tiny by American standards, student roll 2000, and a long drive from big sport, big shopping and high culture. Staff profiles did not impress me. It is a 1.5 day drive from NYC.
Auburn University in Alabama not so far away which I know and admire for its model UN work in fish farming has a student roll of 28,000 which is 14X larger. That size attracts good faculty.
Reporter Amy Friedenberger seems a Knox believer (she was tweeting about the crowd size last night also) and might have been startled at Johnny Yen leaping in there so nimbly (go Johnny).
Taken along with our spike last night in readership its not an unmitigated success for the college and could give the Knox entourage pause about the substantial risks they are running.
If a video report or voice recording or transcript surfaces we can create a post about the event to have a record to link back to (and embarrass Roanoke).
Posted by Peter Quennell on 01/25/18 at 11:02 PM | #
I’m now told that questions for Knox were submitted on postcards.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 01/26/18 at 12:20 AM | #
I agree with those who feel the decline in Knox’s looks - and indeed she does look 15-20 years older than she should—speaks volumes.
It’s like The Picture of Dorian Grey: Her face betrays what the squeaky-clean PR spin would like all to believe. I do hope a Youtube of the event becomes available soon.
Posted by CBHeidegger on 01/26/18 at 03:14 AM | #
Just brief footage on this TV news report:
Posted by CBHeidegger on 01/26/18 at 03:17 AM | #
It is 7 years since she was released from prison and 3 years since she was “exonerated”. Despite this passage of time, and despite multiple speaking engagements, she is still unable to display the self confidence an audience ought to expect from her. No one else in her position would resort to such obvious sympathy-seeking ploys as the tremulous voice, choking on emotion etc which we get every time. And still so much she just refuses to address.
Only the gullible and brainwashed would fall for that.
Those with more developed critical facilities will surely, on reflection, be having their doubts about the “exonoree” tag.
Posted by James Raper on 01/26/18 at 01:02 PM | #
Hi James
Great points. And the college management was WARNED. They too did a despicable thing. You have awakened an idea for a post.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 01/26/18 at 02:43 PM | #
TJMK is having an impact, a tremendous impact. Whenever Knox speaks she gets much bad press in comments, and anyone doubtful of her veracity will google her and Voila! Up pops the True Justice website with its truckload of facts, right down to translated court documents and discussion. A treasure chamber for anyone searching for material about Knox. They also will find PMF and get a clear picture of why Knox was prosecuted. Her personal PR tour will backfire on her because of this website so instantly easy for the public to read.
TJMK is vital to counterbalance the lies and advocacy for Knox.
I truly believe that every time her name appears in print with the cut and paste Knox version of her faux innocence, many readers will fly to do online research and TJMK and PMF will be there like a brilliant lighthouse over the sea of her lies.
Personal experience verifies this for me. When I hear of a complex murder case and I hear cries of “free Steven Avery” or “who killed so-and-so?” I go immediately to the internet for info. An online search often shows me why the prosecution acted on the “but I am innocenct” defendant. Many many times one has to search and search and can barely find a clear outline of why the person was taken to court, what was the case against him.
There are so many advocacy group websites intent on coloring the case to erase the facts against their pet. TJMK firmly stands tall online to rebut their nonsense.
With Knox so prominent online, her name is like a neon sign online that leads researchers straight to TJMK. Her name is linked over and over again to this site.
TJMK and the PMFs cached is a beacon where any seeker of truth can find a full armory of facts that prove she was involved in Meredith’s death. That means a lot. TJMK is a huge presence online, an international lighthouse to defend Meredith. And it still continues to shine…the material is up to date, it is not dated 2011 or even 2015…that builds confidence in the site. Truth never goes out of date, even as history the site will still be meaningful to the case.
TJMK is having a tremendous impact in blocking the Knox caravan.
When she takes detours, her every action has an equal and opposite reaction and sends thousands of doubters straight to TJMK’s door. They may not join the discussion but they’re reading and getting sobered up from their easy illusions.
Posted by Hopeful on 01/27/18 at 04:45 PM | #
@Hopeful: Very well stated and I am in full agreement.
Posted by CBHeidegger on 01/27/18 at 11:24 PM | #
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