Why Didn’t Giulia Bongiorno Fight A Lot Harder - For Meredith Kercher, The Real Victim Here?

Posted by Peter Quennell




1. Bongiono as proponent for female victims

Sollecito lead lawyer and parliamentarian Giulia Bongiorno is persistently prominent in the Italian news.

Here she is captured by paparrazi while walking her baby son Ian around Rome.  She is also in the news a lot for her political activities as a former senior member of the party of Silvio Berlusconi and possible future mayor of Palermo Sicily.

And she is fighting hard in court and the media for the interests of the passengers who were on the wrecked cruise ship Costa Concordia, and for the families whose loved ones died. 

She also runs a group called Double Defense with Italian-speaking Swiss supermodel Michelle Hunziker (images of both above). Michelle just got engaged to the Italian fashion heir Tomaso Trussardi so she also is a lot in the news. 

To raise funds for Double Defense they just co-hosted a glittering gala event in Milan. Many of Italy’s richest and most famous attended. Lots of money was raised.

So what is Double Defense?

Giulia Bongiorno and Michelle Hunziker founded Double Defense specifically to tilt the law and the courts more toward women who are the victims of violent crime. As Barbie Nadeau reports, that is much needed in Italy right now.

This description of Double Defense is from the Italian website Beautiful World.

Double Defense aims to help women who have suffered and are suffering domestic violence, physical or psychological, through assistance in the interpretation of the rules and regulations in force.

In addition to that the non-profit organization, born from a chance encounter between the Swiss showgirl and Bongiorno the lawyer, wants to raise awareness of this terrible phenomenon, promote a culture of nonviolence, and prevent passive acceptance and silence from being the only refuge of those who suffer such terrible and barbaric mistreatment.

There are many names known and loved who have decided to put their fame at the service of Double Defense. Anna Tatangelo, Federica Pellegrini, Francesco Totti, Nek, Ilary Blasi and Silvia Toffanin are some of the celebrities who support the non-profit organization which was created by the duo of Hunziker and Bongiorno. .

The Foundation has a new partnership with the Italian brand Pandorine. Co-promotion will include a new marathon and relay race in Piazza Castello, and a special type of bag that is symbolically called Women: completely white, perfect for summer, and bearing a meaningful and touching inscription…


2. Female victim here be damned

We wonder. Did it never occur to Giulia Bongiorno that one of the most prominent women victims in many years was in fact Meredith Kercher? A victim of a cruel and gratuitous murder? Seemingly the MOST deserving victim for Bongiorno to wage a fight for?

Maybe the answer was yes - back at trial in 2009.

Sollecito’s father seemed to have wanted to retain Ms Bongiorno because of her political clout, from wiretap mentions made public which seem to show zero belief in Sollecito’s innocence. Ms Bongiorno often seemed disinterested at trial, and even disappeared or failed to show once or twice.

She seemed from photos in court to have poor chemistry with Raffaele Sollecito, and we heard that both she and Luciano Ghirga were so disbelieving in the innocence of their clients and so irritated at the PR that they might walk and leave Knox and Sollecito to find new defense counsel. 

But in 2011 we saw something entirely different.

During the first appeal under Judge Hellman, Ms Bongiorno seemed to have other things on her mind than the truth of her client’s guilt or innocence, or the fact that the victim in this case, was a super-achieving woman. Meredith’s family being in another country, with few resources of their own, helped to enable an arrogant callousness.

She presumably could have used a win right about then against the justice system of Italy, in support of the beleagured PM Berlusconi, and she may have had (and still have) on her mind that run for the office of mayor in Palermo, Sicily.

Who knows what else might have been on her mind? But in 2011 she certainly mounted a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners defense of Raffaele Sollecito, and the female victim Meredith be damned..

Bongiorno introduced the bizarre witnesses Alessi and Aviello to discredit Rudy Guede, and one of them (Aviello) openly claimed that he had committed perjury because bribes were being offered in his prison in exchange for testimony helpful to Sollecito. (That is still being investigated.)

Ms Bongiorno also went to remarkable lengths, with witness after witness after witness, to discredit Antonio Curatolo, the claimed observer of Knox and Sollecito in the park. Impartial lawyers think that Curatolo did still emerge as having seen something on the correct night, but he was now openly tarred as a heroin dealer, and in his report Judge Hellman displayed suspicion towards all of the witnesses.

Ms Bongiorno’s performances at trial and at appeal were like night and day.

3. Bongiorno as contemptible hypocrite

So two people who Ms Bongiorno may have always disbelieved and had little time and respect for presently walk free. While the precise kind of victim Bongiono now claims to go to bat for is simply shrugged off, with absolutely no sign of her caring.

Obviously not all women victims in her eyes are equal. Winning at all costs no matter the hurt is what she is really about.


Comments



In the United States, no way could parliamentarian Giulia Bongiorno have been a defense lawyer in such a trial.

As the head of the parliament’s lower house justice committee, with immense power of budget over the entire justice system, she would absolutely have had to recuse herself.

She should have done so here. Immense conflict of interest that the European courts could well rule against. I hope that Mr Maresca duly takes note.

By the way some of our US lawyers believe that the statute of limitations for a wrongful death suit against RS and AK doesnt start its time-limits countdown before the Supreme Court rules.

Such a suit would be one way to ensure that all the blood money from the RS and AK books goes to a worthy cause. 

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/29/12 at 11:37 AM | #

I really wouldn’t have recognised her in that photo, she’s obviously had work done on her lips.

That aside, I’m surprised in her involvement in Double Defense, she comes across as a strong woman who wouldn’t have much sympathy for a woman under attack whom she would see as being weak. Maybe her involvement is to garner votes?

Posted by Melanie on 03/29/12 at 12:40 PM | #

Hi Melanie. Here is the Doppia Difesa website - the foundation is based in Rome..

http://www.doppiadifesa.it/

I dont see mention of Mama Giulia’s lips though I did a double take at the image as well.

From that website this is her biography below. To be made the head of such a powerful committee so soon after first getting elected, one wonders what the deal was with Berlusconi. 

Maybe we saw it in action in 2011 when she went all out against the same Perugia prosecutors who were getting set to give him a hard time.

Giulia Bongiorno, criminal lawyer.

Born in Palermo March 22, 1966. In ‘89 she graduated in Law with honors in ‘92 and received the best score in the examination for solicitor with the District Court of Appeal of Palermo, which earned the prestigious Toga with gold.

Immediately after graduation she began working in criminal law at the Chambers of Gioacchino Sbacchi until ‘96 when she was called to Rome by Professor Franco Coppi, who put here in action in the defense team of Senator Andreotti…

Despite the agitated rhythms of professional experienced with passionate participation and steely determination, she finds time to devote herself to writing (“Nothing But The Truth. How the Andreotti trial changed my life” published by Rizzoli 2005).

Teaching has included Adjunct Professor of Procedural Law at the law institute of the Suor Orsola Benincasa University in Naples. From 21 April 2006 she has been an independent member of parliament.

Giulio Andreotti was several times prime minister. From Wikipedia this is the trial in which Giulia Bongiorno was part of the defense. Andreotti seems to have had the mafia behind him at the start of his career but ultimately turned on them in support of a fire-breathing judge (who was killed in 1992 near Palermo with a car bomb) and on balance he seemed to deserve to get off.

Andreotti was investigated for his role in the 1979 murder of Mino Pecorelli, a journalist who had published allegations that Andreotti had links with the Mafia and with the kidnapping of Aldo Moro. A court acquitted him in 1999 after a trial that lasted three years, but he was convicted on appeal in November 2002 and sentenced to twenty-four years’ imprisonment. The eighty-three-year-old Andreotti was immediately released pending an appeal.

On October 30, 2003 an appeal court overturned the conviction and acquitted Andreotti of the original murder charge. That same year, the court of Palermo acquitted him of ties to the Mafia, but only on grounds of expiry of statutory terms. The court established that Andreotti had indeed had strong ties to the Mafia until 1980, and had used them to further his political career to such an extent as to be considered part of the Mafia itself.[13]

Andreotti defended himself by saying he took harsh measures against the Mafia while in government. Andreotti’s seventh government (1991–92) did take a number of decisive steps against the Mafia, thanks to the presence of anti-Mafia judge Giovanni Falcone at the Ministry of Justice. “When he says that he took extremely harsh measures against the Mafia, he isn’t lying”, wrote Eugenio Scalfari, editor of the newspaper La Repubblica. “I think at a certain point in the late Eighties he realised that the Mafia could not be controlled. He awoke from his perennial distraction ... and the Mafia, which realised that it could no longer count on his protection or tolerance, assassinated his man in Sicily.”[14]

His man in Palermo was Salvo Lima, who was murdered by the Mafia in March 1992. The murder of Lima was a turning point in relations between the Mafia and its political associates. The Mafia felt betrayed by Lima and Andreotti. In their opinion they had failed to block the January 1992 confirmation by the Court of Cassation (court of final appeal) of the sentence in the Maxi Trial of 1986, which had sent scores of Mafiosi to jail.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/29/12 at 12:55 PM | #

could be photoshop…nowadays you don’t have to do the procedure to gain the results in a photo. more evidence that you can’t really trust photos.

bathmat footprint stain, photos of the climb to Filomena’s window, need I say more wink

Posted by bedelia on 03/29/12 at 12:59 PM | #

Only for NON Italians.

Here’s a more appropriate picture series of the woman on the left above during her former job:

http://www.oggi.it/gossip/i-vip-ieri-e-oggi/2011/01/10/michelle-hunziker-ricordate-quando-era-il-lato-b-di-roberta-fotogallery/?pid=23034#singleimage-23034

Posted by ncountryside on 03/29/12 at 02:21 PM | #

Thanks ncountryside. Images may not tell the whole of the story but those sure do make Michelle seem a lightweight. I guess you are saying Italians already knew. There are various reports that her fiance’s family have or had serious doubts that she makes a good match for Tomaso.

The more stories I read about the two of them, the more I think Melanie above may have it right. Both the founders have images they want to remake and their hearts dont seem to be in the victim-saving game.

Read our post on the brave and outspoken Barbara Benedettelli in contrast. She really has spoken out for Meredith and her family and interviewed a large number of victims’ families and put their stories on TV and into a book. She really does genuinely seem intent on nudging the system.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/italian_campaigner_for_victims_and_their_families_says/

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/29/12 at 03:14 PM | #

Gulia Bongiorno is not part of PDL. She left the party in July, 2011, and joined Futuro e Libertà led by Gianfranco Fini.

In Feb. 2011 she participated in a manifestation “Se non ora, quando?” for the dignity and respect of women after Rubygate.

Hypocrite does seem to fit!

Posted by Miriam on 03/29/12 at 05:28 PM | #

Thanks Miriam. Appreciated. That opens up a new line of enquiry. It explains even better her newfound dynamism in 2011. Fini is putting his party at the forefront of advocacy for Italian women and a Lettera article says Fini wants to surrounds himself with the tough women of Italian politics. In part because they know how to compromise, and in part to capture much of the female vote.

Fini claims Bongiorno had an uneasy relationship with Berlusconi and fought against the elimination of police wiretapping bill that would have crippled police work. But she still fought in a singularly nasty way for Sollecito and against Meredith and the Perugia authorities in 2011.

I’d say hypocrite, even more-so. Remember she threatened to sue Aviello for the bribery claim - but still hasn’t. Here she is in June 2011, going bananas as Rudy Guede stonewalls her. The juror seems pretty amused.


Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/29/12 at 07:02 PM | #

Do you have any link that shows this scene with Rudy live in court?  I’d love to see it in action.

Very interesting about the transformation between 2009 and 2011.

Posted by believing on 03/30/12 at 12:14 AM | #

Hi Believing. Video of that? I wish. This is the best we could get and some on PMF have watched it a few times and figured various things out.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/30-plus_minute_video_by_perugias_umbria24_tv_of_rudy_guede_in_the_cour/

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/30/12 at 12:35 AM | #

Is there a translation of the Guede video available?

Gulia Bongiorno is certainly a piece of work, a work in progress definitely. Her defense of RS most certainly was motivated by money (Papa Smurf anyone?).  If indeed one of the goals of her career is justice for female crime victims, defense of RS would have been unethical.  But of course, people do many things to survive.  Human nature is not always pretty.

Just wish Meredith could have survived.  It is uncanny the number of monsters we live with on a daily basis.

Posted by zinnia on 03/30/12 at 03:31 AM | #

Zinnia.
Not for money, but for unlimited ambition.

Giulia Bongiorno’s father is Girolamo Bongiorno full professor in Law at University of Roma “La Sapienza” and lawyer in Roma and Palermo and, of course, qualified for defense in the Supreme Court …. member of “’International Association Procedural Law” in Belgium, etc. etc.

http://bit.ly/H6p0MU

Giulia Bongiorno with her baby:

http://www.ilmessaggero.it/fotogallery.php?id_fg=6986&id_news=184977

Posted by ncountryside on 03/30/12 at 04:22 AM | #

Italian media are reporting toat that a new date has been set for the calunnia trial of Curt Knox and Edda Mellas in Perugia: 24 January 2013. That is for the categoric claim not so far proven that Knox was forced into “confessing”.

The police complainants and witnesses involved who are believed to be in total well over a dozen have asked for the delay of this trial as some of them are involved in a police operation. No sign they will simply drop it.

We cant see Sollecitos book due out before then as doing Curt and Edda any good at all. If it sticks to the inflammatory, dishonest course promised by the book agent and ghost writer, it could make things very much worse.

*******

Report here where one silly reporter in Perugia is interviewing another. Neither of them we know. The complainants and witnesses did not just no-show; they asked for the delay, as the Knox-Sollecito teams have done repeatedly in the past.

http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=145142835&fPath=/news/local&fDomain=10212

Nor are they “defending” themselves. The positions of all of them are publicly known and hang together, and Knox cant identify who she claimed hit her, and even said at trial she was well treated. King5 failed to mention that.

********

Report here where Knox defense lawyer Dalla Vedova plays down the charges against Curt & Edda, and says AK will probably testify by teleconferencing when the trial does get under way. That’s news worth noting.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/amanda-knox-testify-italian-court-defense-parents/story?id=16037131#.T3XTe329ZwE

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/30/12 at 10:16 AM | #

Hi Zinnia. Good questions. I agree with ncountryside as to what seems to drive Bongiorno, somewhat erratically as we saw in the courtroom but she does somehow progress. I am not convinced that Pappa Doc has endless resources and she would have her pick of cases where she could look better and get paid more. The interim outcome after first appeal was not popular in Italy.

On the video, if you make your way back to June 2011 on PMF you will see some of that video exchange translated. It didnt seem to me to amount to very much as Guede was way beyond dealing and he had done what he wanted which was to get his statement read in.

The problem as always with Guede is that he so obviously doesnt tell the whole truth so all of what he says is suspect. Micheli and Massei and Hellman all disbelieved him and Micheli and Hellman were very hard on him.

So were we. His oft-repeated claim that Meredith invited him to the house on the night for consensual sex is ludicrous, and defamatory to her memory, and we have said so, repeatedly. One instance:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/prediction_guedes_appeal_will_totally_fail_his_intentions_ugly_and_lik/

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/30/12 at 10:26 AM | #

I’m annoyed that they’ve slipped the noose again. Their new date is my birthday - hopefully that’s a good omen!!

M

Posted by Melanie on 03/30/12 at 12:17 PM | #

Lol

Keeps turning up like a bad penny. Opened the intenet just to see the headlines and who do I find?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/amanda-knox-testify-italian-court-defense-parents/story?id=16037131#.T3XhSX29ZwE

Posted by Miriam on 03/30/12 at 01:34 PM | #

MORE bad news for the Sollecitos. Luciano Aviello is believed to be under extreme pressure to fess up all he knows about that talk in prison of bribes.

Perugia prosecutors are investigating him from the angle of charging him and under that threat, if they can keep him in a safe place (safer than Guede) he may sing.

While he is frankly pretty well nuts (he is the one who said his missing brother did it - and also wanted the money so he could change sex) he could lead cops to more credible witnesses who may finger the Sollecitos..

And/or who knows? Et tu Mayor Giulia?

Three months ago on PMF Yummi promised us that the more spellbinding events were still ahead, as Cassation gets into the game and the wheels come off the PR machine one by one.

Maybe David Marriott should hurry up and retire, Michael Heavey too, so they dont have so much ‘splaining to do.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/30/12 at 03:10 PM | #

At this point I feel there will never be closure on this case.  It has dragged out for so many years now.  As ABC reports, if the case even starts way out in Jan 2013, nearly a year from now again, there will be some reason that they parents are acquitted.  It’s very disappointing not to have any progress on this issue.  It will be six years (seven) since the event occurred.  Who will remember the details and even if they are remembered, everyone will be doubted.  It’s unbelievable that it is postponed so far into the future.

Posted by believing on 03/30/12 at 09:18 PM | #

Hi Believing.

The trial in 2009 began 15 months after the crime against Meredith, not unusual in the UK and US. Had RS and AK each only told one story it could have started sooner. Had they chosen the short form trial like Rudy it could have been over in less than one year.

Pity the appeal didnt start in 2010. Then Judge Hellman caused an unscionable delay in 2011 to suit Bongiorno who, in our lawyers’ opinion, should have been told to quite the case. If that had happened and Hellman had not invited the independent consultants in, probably illegally as Dr Galati says, we would be 6 to 9 months ahead of where we are now.

The Knox-Mellases, presumably at Ted Simon’s urging have essentially called it quits on the PR campaign while that threat continues to hang over their heads, so that is one plus out of the pending civil trial. The Sollecito family trial is more serious because for a short time, they went way further in trying to make the case jump the tracks. That really needs to happen soon because the Kerchers have a direct interest there.

Most important is the Cassation appeal Dr Galati has filed against RS and AK which could result in a new appeal trial or an adjustment to the verdict or sentence. Closure on that seems probable some time next year. Meanwhile Italians and Brits and Americans are learning more and more. Time is on our side.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/30/12 at 10:02 PM | #

More news from Seattle:
Campaign continues to clear Knox’s name at home
http://www.king5.com/news/Seattle-judge-continues-campaign-to-clear-Knoxs-name—144996265.html

Posted by Hungarian on 03/30/12 at 11:00 PM | #

Hi Hungarian. As you may know Heavey is an elected county superior court judge who has said he won’t run again. He is at the court annex down in Kent which is more than half way to Tacoma from Seattle and which has to be dull and low status compared to the Seattle downtown main court.

Sounding besotted by a faux image of Knox (who oesnt in that clique?!) he is weak on the evidence and mostly makes things up or parrots FOA talking point. He has been offensive toward Italy and the officials though he calmed that down a bit after he was reprimanded by a discipline board for using offical letterhead for an open letter he wrote (which was ignored).

He was on the FOA panel that performed at Seattle University in April last year in front of a crowd estimated on PMF at about 30 - some got up and left, so the number headed down by the last act. We posted these observations.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/today_an_obsessional_group_rant_about_no_evidence/

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/the_seattle_university_panel_some_of_the_ways_in_which_steve_moore/

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/why_the_foas_increasingly_hapless_steve_moore_should_probably_stay/

Via the third link to SomeAlibi’s post you can get to an embedded video at which he appears at about minute 32. If he repeats that performance to the Rotary Clubs, loud snores may result.

Of course AK should really be out there convincing people herself. The growing concern of her own crowd has lost her maybe half her supporters already. Heavey’s self appointed task is sysephean.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/31/12 at 01:54 AM | #

Hello Peter,  thank you for answering my email.

I didn’t want to depress anybody.  I have a few questions.

1) Arrogant Steve Moore,(arrogant,because if you are desagree with him you are stupid or corrupted.Or maybe both.Only arrogant people think in this way,complaining that Minnini sued him.“Poor man”.  Is it true?And do you know,when the case will go to court?

2) Are on this web site other italians? Do you know why I asked it? Because we need to to keep fighting for Meredith, here in Italy. But more we are,better it is. We need to organize something. What do you think?

Posted by Matteo_65 on 03/31/12 at 09:16 AM | #

Hi Mateo. According to our site statistics Italian readers are neck-and-neck second with UK readers (after Americans) and have been steadily increasing. There’s always a surge when something happens.

Italy and its justice system have taken a hit after Hellman’s ruling and Italians are not normally inclined to take such things lying down. Fight back, I agree, though we are pretty confident about the Supreme Court..

(1) Best thing any Italian reader could do for Meredith and the various causes her death has sparked might be for you to ask Italian journalists to tune in here and then write up what they see.

(2) Raising heat on Giulia Bongiorno for her terrible conflicts of interests would particularly help. She would be getting roasted in the media if she was in the US and legal and political ethics boards would be purusing her.

(3) Listing what’s broken in an otherwise very good justice and penal system and then pushing for changes would be a very good tribute to Meredith.

(4) And giving full support to Barbara Benedettelli in her pro-victims capaign would really help. We email now and then and I know she seriously could use help. Could you be in touch with her and join her cause?

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/italian_campaigner_for_victims_and_their_families_says/

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/31/12 at 10:10 AM | #

Postponement of the Knox-Mellas hearing because the Police didn’t show? They were busy elsewhere.

Another win for Curt Knox as the police drop their case. I can’t put this down to “the law’s delay.” How long have we been waiting for this end of March date?

Somewhere while pursuing the various leads which Peter has posted I read a woman’s claim (mimi’s?) that in such & such a video Amanda (?) can be seen being cuffed on the back of the head three times. Couldn’t find the video & ask if I have misunderstood that.  For if that is anywhere visible on tape—farewell police case. And they would know that.

This makes me feel the disbelief that “believing” posts above. And I agree with Matteo, just above. Something more must be done to prod the Roman appeals court.

What the first trial brought out with evidence & reason found expression in the verdict of guilty.
However agreeable in physical appearance or however personable they may seem, evidence at once hard, plentiful & undissolved shows that an almost impromptu pairing of Amanda & Raffaele awakened a psychopathic depth in each which led to Meredith’s rape & murder, an act carried out with unspeakable depravity.

This ugly pairing must not be forgotten or its consequences ignored.  Amanda & Raffaele must not be allowed to shield themselves in lies, whether well-paid & profitable or otherwise.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 03/31/12 at 10:35 AM | #

What about Minnini? Did he really sued Moore?

Posted by Matteo_65 on 03/31/12 at 10:36 AM | #

Hi Matteo. Steve Moore seems to us to live in a bubble and the way he rambled and made palpably false claims last April at the panel at Seattle University surprised even us. Both James Raper and SomeAlibi posted on that. It’s not clear that he can distinguish paranoid visions from reality. He seems unable to prevent himself from sounding really nasty - not the only one, but one of the worst.

That said, it is possible Mignini did tell Moore to back off his endless sliming or face a suit. Moore’s wife Michele screeched at Mignini outside the court and the incident was referred to the Florence investigators to decide whether she should be hit with a charge. We’ve seen nothing public result from that but the Moores may have heard something from Florence directly. It would NOT have been from Mignini.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/31/12 at 10:48 AM | #

Hi Ernest. Although we are not yet at the end game and Dr Galati is very formidable and has launched a mother of an appeal, I agree with much of what you say. I am not sure about the phrase “didnt show”. That was the spin put on it by the PR and their poodles in the media.

There are many officers involved as complainants and witnesses and they are stretched increasingly thin. That they put the state’s business ahead of their personal issues with Curt Knox and Edda Mellas (whose team has far more often asked for delays) is not altogether a bad thing.

Besides there look to be advantages to them to let Dr Galati get an outcome from the Supreme Court first. That may or may not have been on their minds.

Two often delayed projects here on TJMK may help a lot to achieve media balance: a page with all the hard questions, and a page correcting all the wrong facts. Anyone venturing onto media sites would be much better equipped with that.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/31/12 at 10:55 AM | #

I was very surprise to know Mr.Sollecito in fact.always said that he doesn’t like Amanda and Amanda’s parentes.

Was it a council of war?I don’t think so. Amanda and Amanda’ parents will never go back to Italy.They care very little of what happens in Italy. But why did the Sollecito go to America? This is the question.

Posted by Matteo_65 on 03/31/12 at 02:46 PM | #

Hi Matteo. Yes surprising. Several have suggested some or all of them never came. We had several posts up which to publishing people might have conflicted with the sales pitch they had been given. Sollecito might have been stuck for aswers there, and trying to re-activate things with Amanda and beating his drum unwisely on TV, and so papa and sister hopped on a plane. Whatever it was it has them flustered.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/31/12 at 03:07 PM | #

I have a theory on the visit to the US. I believe the sole purpose of the visit was for the Sollecito’s to get the Knox’s side of the story, not the other way around.

There is no love loss between the two families, it doesn’t take a genius to see that Papa & Sister Sollecito blame AK for the mess they are in, after all, if it wasn’t for RS meeting AK then Sister Sollecito would still have her cushy police job.

If the Cassation appeal goes against them I think the Sollecito’s will make a deal and use AK’s version of events against her to well and truly throw her under the bus.

AK will be looking at (well deserved) hard time, Raf will get off with a soft sentence, if that.

Posted by Urbanist on 03/31/12 at 03:45 PM | #

I think the main reason behind the trip to the US was to iron out details with the book publishers.

James, while what you’re saying would make sense from the Sollecitos’ perspective, I wouldn’t underestimate Amanda.  To say anything self-incriminating to them would be monumentally stupid, and I think she’s far too manipulative and shrewd to make this sort of mistake.  It’s not even clear/confirmed that they met, but then the trip to Seattle would be a bit strange.

Posted by Vivianna on 03/31/12 at 06:13 PM | #

It seems that RS’s book is due to appear before AK’s - which gives RS a considerable advantage in influencing the contents of AK’s tome. Blackmail, anyone?

Posted by Daoud on 03/31/12 at 09:24 PM | #

I would highly recommend to read this series of posts again. Cesare Beccaria is a (rather brilliant) Italian lawyer who had had the huge advantage of watching the maneuvering play out in the Italian media..

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/how_each_of_the_three_subtly_but_surely_pushed_the_other_two_1/

Everything now can be pretty well understood in terms of part deux of that performance: each pushing the other ever so cautiously between them and the fire. Trying to be the one to not get burned. 

I agree with James and Daoud: that Sollecito’s book coming out first does seem to give him the edge in terms of “what narrative?”  Sollecito’s book should be out before Cassation rules on Dr Galati’s appeal, Knox’s not. (Maybe bad call, maybe not.)

Also there is somewhat less evidence in the house on Sollecito, he had little obvious motive whereas AK certainly had some, he said she was out of his house for 4 hours (mobile pings confirm that) and she had lied, he is Italian (though not much liked in Italy), his legal team is “smarter” unless we can winkle Giulia Bongiorno off the team, and his father really may have a little influence, and no liking for the Knox-Mellases. 

It is still possible that Chris Mellas was seeking to find Raffaele gainful employment in Seattle, maybe as a way to look over his shoulder and slow his book and stop him shooting his mouth off in Italy. I see him as being barely employable (like Knox) and far too jealous and possesive of Knox who surely wants done with him but can’t afford to just say so.

Tough posts here and on PMF have quite possibly driven home by now to the agents and ghost writers and publishers what INCREDIBLY difficult tasks they have taken on, to account for all the hard facts and questions we have listed while not risking charges of calunnia.

Have you ever seen the stage version of the musical Evita? (Now in previews on Broadway by the way.)  There is a brilliant scene, not in the movie, where two square squads of dancers in tight formation are maneuvering themselves and the other squad back and forth across the stage.

One is the corrupt aristocracy of Argentina and the other is Che Guevara and the military. Seems very like what we are now seeing here. Two whole squads of perps, families, lawyers and publishers, each maneuvering to keep the other squad closer to fire. 

Both books are a TERRIBLE idea. Greed and extreme arrogance will bring the Sollecito-Knox-Mellases down.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/01/12 at 08:28 AM | #

Hello, and thanks Peter for the opportunity to put in my 2 cents worth. For anyone that has any lingering doubts, even with such great timeline of events and detailed descriptions of what is really taking place both behind the scenes and upfront, I found the pic I was looking for right on this site.

I first looked on Google images but the majority of RS’s pics are all from the left side or low light or bad angle. Some pics He clearly has “pancake” make-up on. If you go to the right hand column up top, and click on RS’s name, then go to second page, 3rd pic down showing Him and AK, you will see clear as day evidence of Meredith’s self defense efforts on RS right cheek. 

Once you have seen it, you can see faint/trace evidence of the same in other pics, but in this one the flash was just right, revealing what lies below the skin that may not always be visible in “normal” light. Can it be explained away, sure, but that is expected from people who are trying to explain away a torture and murder of someone who did nothing more than live up to a standard of good moral conduct.

Posted by freddy on 04/01/12 at 12:26 PM | #

This is interesting but not surprising.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17553860

Posted by Miriam on 04/01/12 at 03:49 PM | #

Sorry to digress from the subject but there’s something that has bothered me for a while now, after all this time, why do the majority of the FOA still believe the pair are innocent?

Regardless of the smoke, mirrors, lies and misinformation, there is such a well documented mountain of evidence against the two, combined with the fact that instead of shouting freedom from the rooftops, which any normal person would have done, AK has remained silent, surely, even the most ardent supporters must be starting to ask a few questions.

What is the general feeling in Seattle at this time and has the support shifted? It seems obvious that Edda & Curt knew AK & RS were involved from the start but both families must know that too. Are there any of her former supporters who have changed sides and actually spoken out?

Posted by Urbanist on 04/02/12 at 02:45 AM | #

Back to the subject. In the long run, Giulia Bongiorno’s support of Sollecito will do her Double Defence group more damage than good, utterly reprehensible.

Posted by Urbanist on 04/02/12 at 02:56 AM | #

Hi Freddy.  I was quite intrigued by your idea, since I haven’t heard it before, and went to look at the pictures.  I assume the picture you were referencing is this: http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage9/9002.jpg

To be honest, I can’t see what you see. For one, foundation, and especially opaque foundation, is used to even out skin tone.  This means that natural undertones and flushed areas will not show much or at all.

In this picture, I can see clearly (when zoomed in) that Sollecito’s skin has pink undertones.  You can see the flush on his cheeks, forehead, bridge of his nose, nostrils, and chin.

The image is pixely, but you can see his beard growing and some brownish spots which could be either ingrown beard hairs or acne scars.  I’m leaning towards acne scars because you can see something similar in later pictures, where his skin is clearer and he’s clean-shaven.  They are round, which is more consistent with acne scars than with scratches.

I also see his flush “bleeding” through the scarred area, which is not consistent with using foundation, unless it’s the extra sheer kind.  Even that tends to even out skin tone, so I don’t think his natural blush would show through so much.

In case I’m looking at the wrong picture or missing the obvious, perhaps you could post a link to the picture with some ares circled so we know what to focus on.

Posted by Vivianna on 04/02/12 at 09:36 AM | #

James, I don’t think anyone knows what FoA people privately believe.  Some of them - the more vocal and prominent ones - were obviously paid to have certain opinions.  Others have used this case to further their own agendas and get some free publicity for their blogs, books, etc., so they are profiting one way or another too.

The ones who haven’t been officially recruited are probably folks with limited education and limited critical thinking training.  They may have their own prejudices, which make official FoA lines believable to them in a visceral way, and relatively little inclination to look elsewhere. 

I don’t believe for a second that any of the front-runners are there out of the kindness of their own hearts, so don’t expect them to change their (public) opinions.  They may well believe AK to be guilty as sin, but they can’t and won’t acknowledge that publicly.

Posted by Vivianna on 04/02/12 at 09:48 AM | #

Hi James. On your comment #1. FOA analysis is more PMF’s beat because it consists of watching for signs and waiting for tips and leaks and putting two and two together in a periodic fashion which may still go on for years. I follow it for sure but its something hard to post on here.

Vivianna really captured the essence of their motivational drivers in a nutshell. Money and status and careers and an addled sense of belonging, and a hope that AK will actually notice them. (Good luck with that one. Steve Moore already go the boot.)

Probably there are a few true believers. If AK has something of a mental condition, some others might have something similar, and turn out in sympathy with her. That is quite common among some syndromes, and if we had them we might do the same.

We don’t think the FOA group was ever very large, and the fact that only about 35 attended the panel at Seattle U last April (for which the panelists put in a lot of effort to prepare their shrill, murky stuff) rather proved that point.

We also know for sure that a few of the nastiest posters post widely under several different names. Chris Mellas said in Perugia that their campaign needed more real experts and less nasty mud-throwers, but we believe (with proof) that he is one of the nastiest, though of course not under his own name.

A surprising number of the FOA have reaped some sort of comeuppance. The latest is Rocco Girlanda in Rome. It would be pretty easy to believe in a Curse of Knox. I don’t think that up to when she died, Typhoid Mary here in New York believed she really was a typhoid carrier.

Could sorta be the same with Knox.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/02/12 at 12:07 PM | #

If I may be permitted to borrow two quotes from above and join them together, for the amusement of those who can’t help latching onto an out-of-context quote.  (Melanie) “I’m annoyed that they’ve slipped the noose again. (Peter)The positions of all of them are publicly known and hang together”.

Ernest, I don’t know of any video showing cuffs to AK’s head, but some time back I did say that an officer at the Questura spoke of AK repeatedly striking her own stupid head in frustration, on the way to be fingerprinted. Sort of like children who bang their own heads against the wall repeatedly, and for no obvious reason.  I agree with Vivianna re: what the FOA may actually believe.

There are certainly Holocaust deniers who know full well what the nazis did, but argue that it was a hoax, merely to throw salt in the wounds of survivors. There are others (such as her siblings and perhaps curt) who simply have to believe in her innocence, or at the least, in her overwhelming right as a member of the lilywhite faction, to be innocent of harming anyone who mattered in the larger scheme. They simply must prevail. It is the order of their tiny universe.

Posted by mimi on 04/02/12 at 01:36 PM | #

Thanks Vivianna and Peter for your feedback.

To back up my “shouting freedom from the rooftops” quote, I would strongly recommend viewing the two videos below:

The Birmingham 6 - released = genuine emotion and anger at false imprisonment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf8hEj2qltE

Knox - released = no tears, no genuine emotion, fake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYacoqpCw4I&feature=relmfu

Posted by Urbanist on 04/02/12 at 07:32 PM | #

Hi Vivianna, Thanx for noticing, I would love to have a confirmation from a 2nd party that I am not seeing things. If you find the same picture it leaps out at you once you have been told.

When you find it look down at your own hands and look at the varying heights of your fingers it is a perfect match. It is darker where the initial nail goes in, then the scratch, and darkens again as it crosses the rise of cheek bone.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/powerpoints_13_150_questions_for_the_defendant_that_could_finally_give/

Posted by freddy on 04/02/12 at 09:15 PM | #

Mimi,

Thank you for your kind words. You clarify a misunderstanding on my part & shed further light on Amanda’s psychology.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 04/03/12 at 03:45 AM | #

freddy,

Interesting observation but I am afraid you are mistaken. Three lines on the right side of his face, yes I see them, but the picture was taken some many months after the murder.

If these lines are all that are left of scratches inflicted by Meredith then it is pretty obvious that they would be extremely apparent the morning following the murder, which they were not, obviously

If you want to see a picture of Sollecito that morning, showing the right side of his face, go to PMF, and look in the Gallery under Raffaele Sollecito.

Posted by James Raper on 04/03/12 at 04:51 AM | #

I think there’s an optical illusion of “lines” because the quality of the picture isn’t very high. If you zoom in enough, you can see they are circular marks, which in my lay opinion, are more consistent with acne scars.

It never crossed my mind to look that closely at pics of him right after the murder, but I would think that if had some lacerations on his face, the police would have raised questions immediately.  It’s hard to fool them with some amateur make-up.

Posted by Vivianna on 04/03/12 at 08:05 AM | #

Freddy’s link is adjusted somewhat to take those who are interested straight to the shot.  The image zooms in if you click on it and adjust it in PDF view. It was taken in court (first time we saw AK in pea green) about 18 months after Meredith died. Six more images below, not so long after the attack.

No DNA was found under Meredith’s finger nails.

One of the arguments that there HAD to be three attackers is that, tough girl that she was, with martial arts training, she seemed to have had little chance to put up a fight against a pack of three, two of whom were seemingly holding knives and one was behind her.

Coupled with probable taunting, and an attempt by Meredith to struggle to get up, and then dying holding her neck so the blood would not seep out, was beyond any normal cruelty. Plus the door was locked and mobile phones removed, to make quite sure that she did die.

That AK and RS seemed to have enjoyed the recollection later is why many consider them so depraved. AK showed NO fear ever of a killer on the loose, merely joy. We have never posted the full recreation in court (right before summations) of the mad-dogs attack on Meredith.

We stopped short with this.  http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/italians_have_for_a_long_time_known_how_depraved_and_cruel_the_final_s/

Not one of the books carries the full recreation, which took the Rome team a full day to get through. In addition, Mignini had a movie creation ready, but he decided the court had been sickened enough. (Recently the defenses screamed at the cost, without explaining WHY Mignini did not show it.)

All of this sure makes the attack hard to explain as just a “little” murder or a mere accident of a knife that slipped or just that one of them went too far and wrong-footed the other two. (In other words, a manslaughter, as one or two in the FOA have said they would accept.)

It feeds into the notion among forensic psychologists that this was a pack attack, the dynamics of which went beyond what any one of them might have done on their own - though two of them may have fantasized it.

The defenses ACCEPT that three were there as the Supreme Court has already ruled, which is why they took the long-shot gamble of bringing in Alessi and Aviello to explain who were the other two. (Friends of Guede or friends of Aviello’s brother.)

The defenses have NEVER pursued the lone wolf theory or the notion that Guede climbed in the window - not after Bongiorno’s climber who was TALLER than Guede (over six feet) miserably and very publicly failed (Guede is 5 feet 11 inches).

The defenses have also always kept well away from the forensic evidence in the corridor and bathroom and Filomena’s room, with the exception of Sollecito’s footprint on the bathroom mat, which repeated prosecution experts pushed in their faces.

If you follow exclusively and only all the behavior of (1) the families and (2) the defense lawyers, those actions and words by themselves make it overwhelmingly clear that all of them simply KNOW that AK and RS did it. Not one is genuinely convinced or convincing the other way.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/03/12 at 10:33 AM | #

Here below are six more images of Sollecio’s right cheek.

The first three were taken in late 2008 and the second three in early 2009.

Each expands into a pdf if you click on it.























Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/03/12 at 11:47 AM | #

Related to the possibility of scratches etc, to the faces, I certainly think that somebody got a piece of Knox:

(a) the apparent missing piercing on the left ear, pictured the day after the murder,

(b) the significant scratch on her neck under her chin, photographed a few days later; size, shape and location totally inconsistent with a “hickey.”

Just speculating here obviously, and apologies if this question has been answered before, but could Meredith have been wearing rings? or a watch/bracelet/other jewellery that could have caused a cut or scratch if lashing out towards a person’s face or neck?


Posted by Rocket Queen on 04/05/12 at 02:27 PM | #


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