Friday, April 19, 2013

Tip for The Media: In Fact Guede Absolutely Couldnt Have Attacked Meredith Alone

Posted by Cardiol MD

[Bongiorno in 2011 trying to rattle an unshakable Guede claiming Knox and Sollecito did the crime]

The convicted murderer Rudy Guede to this day claims that Meredith let him into the house, so we cut him no slack for that.

But at the same time he was no drifter or serial knife carrier, he had no police record in 2007 (unlike Knox and Sollecito), and no drug dealing or breaking-and-entering has ever been either charged or proved.

In October 2008 Judge Micheli mistrusted and sharply rebuked a witness who claimed it just might have been Guede who broke into his house.

Guede seriously discounted his role on the night of Meredith’s death, but some physical evidence (not a lot) proved he had played a part in the attack. Thereafter his shoeprints lead straight to the front door.

Neither Judge Micheli nor Judge Massei nor the Supreme Court believed he acted alone or had any part in the very obvious cleanup that had been carried out.

The Knox and Sollecito defenses failed miserably to prove he climbed in Filomena’s window, and they never even TRIED to paint him as the lone attacker. That is why in 2011 we saw two of the most bizarre defence witnesses in recent Italian legal history, the jailbirds Alessi and Aviello, take the stand

Alessi got so nervous in claiming Guede told him Guede did it with two others that he was physically sick and had to take time off from the stand.

Aviello claimed his brother and another did it (not Guede) but then claimed the Sollecito family via Giulia Bongiorno floated bribes in his prison for false testimony.

Tellingly, although Bongiorno threatened to sue Aviello, she never has. Even more tellingly, Judge Hellmann himself initiated no investigation and simply let this serious felony claim drop dead.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of 20 reasons why Rudy Guede did not act alone, and why not one scrap of evidence has ever been found for any other two other than Knox and Sollecito themselves. 

1.    Included in Guede’s Supreme Court’s Sentencing Report was the fact that Meredith sustained 43 wounds

This fact was omitted from the Hellmann & Zanetti [H/Z] Report, for reasons that readers can only guess. This fact was also omitted from the Massei Report, probably out of humane respect for the feelings of Meredith’s family.

Its inclusion in the Supreme Court’s Report reflects the report’s factual completeness.  The PMF translation reads, in relevant part:

c) The body presented a very large number of bruising and superficial wounds ““ around 43 counting those caused by her falling ““ some due to a pointed and cutting weapon, others to strong pressure: on the limbs, the mouth, the nose, the left cheek, and some superficial grazing on the lower neck, a wound on the left hand, several superficial knife wounds or defence wounds on the palm and thumb of the right hand, bruises on the right elbow and forearm, ecchymosis on the lower limbs, on the front and inside of the left thigh, on the middle part of the right leg, and a deep knife wound which completely cut through the upper right thyroid artery fracturing the hyoid bone”¦.

Including the number of minutes occupied by an initial verbal confrontation, the escalation of that confrontation into taunting and then the physical attack, leading to the infliction of 43 wounds, and to the fatal stabbing, how many minutes would all of this occupied?

The prosecution estimated it took fifteen.

2.    Meredith had taken classes in dance and played sports (football, karate)

See the Massei Translation, p23

3.    Meredith was a strong girl, both physically and in terms of temperament

See the statements by her mother and by her sister Stephanie (hearing of June 6, 2009). and description of her karate “sustained by her strong character” (Massei Translation, pp23, 164, 366, and 369).

4.    Meredith must have been “˜strongly restrained’

See the Massei Translation, p371; p399, in the original

5.    Meredith she remained virtually motionless throughout the attack

That was in spite of Meredith’s physical and personality characteristics [Massei Translation p369]  [Massei Translation p370-371].

6.    The defensive wounds were almost non-existent

See the report of Dr Lalli, pp. 33, 34, 35 with the relevant photos. Massei Translation p370.

7.  One killer alone could not have inflicted the 43 wounds with so few defensive wounds.

8.    There must necessarily have been two knives at the scene of the crime

See the Massei Translation p377.

9.    A lone killer would have to use at least one hand/arm to restrain Meredith, and the other hand to hold one knife.

To use 2 knives a lone killer would have to place 1 knife down, leaving blood-stain[s] wherever it was placed, and then reach for the other knife. Even wiping the blades on the killer’s clothes, using the one hand, and later scrubbing of the knives would not erase all the blood, as has already been demonstrated.

10.    Two killers could divide their attacks by one killer using both hands/arms to restrain Meredith

Meanwhile the other killer used one hand/arm to restrain Meredith, and the other hand to use the various knives. Could a lone killer accomplish all that?

11.    The clothes that Meredith was wearing (shoes, pants and underwear) had been removed.

See the Massei Translation p.370

“It is impossible to imagine in what way a single person could have removed the clothes that Meredith was wearing (shoes, pants and underwear), and using the violence revealed by the vaginal swab, could have caused the resulting bruises and wounds recalled above, as well as removing her sweatshirt, pulling up her shirt, forcing the bra hooks before tearing and cutting the bra.” [Massei Translation p.370]

12.    Meredith’s sweatshirt had been pulled up and removed.

See the [Massei Translation p.370

13.    Meredith’s bra had been forcibly unhooked

See the Massei Translation p.370

14.    Meredith’s bra had been torn

See the Massei Translation p.370

15.    Meredith’s bra had been cut

See the Massei Translation p.370

16.    Violence to Meredith was revealed by the genital swab.

See the Massei Translation p.370

17.    In the H/Z Appellate Proceedings, not only did Sollecito’s Lawyers not allege a lone killer

They themselves brazenly introduced false testimony to the effect that there were two other killers.

18.    Even H/Z did not deny the complicity of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.

Even H/Z seemed to conclude they are probably guilty, but not beyond a reasonable doubt:

“¦ in order to return a guilty verdict, it is not sufficient that the probability of the prosecution hypothesis to be greater than that of the defence hypothesis, not even when it is considerably greater, but [rather] it is necessary that every explanation other than the prosecution hypothesis not be plausible at all, according to a criterion of reasonability. In all other cases, the acquittal of the defendant is required.” [H/Z p.92]

19.    Judge Micheli, in Guede’s trial, found that Guede did not act alone

And that the evidence implicated Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito as accomplices of Rudy Guede in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

20.    Judge Massei’s court found that the evidence implicated Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito

He concluded they were joint perpetrators with Rudy Guede in the murder of Meredith Kercher

Overwhelming, right? Is it really reasonable to claim as Sollecito did in his book that Guede was a lone-killer?  Doesn’t all this contradict the lone-killer theory beyond a reasonable doubt?


More points very welcome. Our main poster and great list-maker brmull emailed us this list of his own.

1. Knox and Sollecito’s defense failed to refute the prosecution’s evidence that the break-in could not have been real.

2. The Supreme Court ruled that the break-in was staged by others.

3. Before his arrest, Guede told his friend Benedetti that Knox’s rent money had been stolen, but Knox never reported the loss.

4. There was no sign of a struggle between Guede and Meredith outside her bedroom, and no rational reason for him to follow her into the bedroom to kill her.

5. Rather than being quickly attacked, Meredith ate a mushroom and seems to have taken off her shoes and settled onto her bed to study.

6. The forensics indicate Meredith struggled with her attackers in front of the wardrobe as they tried to stab her, rather than a quick attack from behind.

7. Guede had a cut on his finger, suggesting he was cut by another attacker.

8. The prosecution’s print expert convincingly excluded Guede as a match for the bloody print on the bathmat as well as several prints revealed with the blood-detecting chemical luminol in the hall and in Knox’s room.

9. It would have been totally irrational for Guede, or any novice killer, to sexually assault the victim once she was bleeding.

10. The evidence of a clean-up in Meredith’s room and the small bathroom is incontrovertible and Guede had no incentive to do this.

11. It would have been irrational for Guede to lock Meredith in her bedroom since, if she were alive, she could have easily have written down his name.

12. It would have been irrational for Guede to lock Meredith’s bedroom door to delay discovery of the crime, and yet leave the front door wide open.

13. It would have been irrational for Guede to toss the phones into the trees, yet take the murder weapon back to his apartment.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/19/13 at 02:51 PM | #

Surely also, an innocent person wouldn’t know who the killer was.

So how can they accuse Guede? (like RS did in the book, though he refused to on TV).

Wouldn’t an innocent person think that Guede had been “framed” by the nasty Italian system?

Posted by Rocket Queen on 04/19/13 at 04:59 PM | #

It is also laughable that an supposed and experienced burglar and drifter/drug dealer of long standing would choose to break into a property in through the most difficult route in full view of anyone in the street and the accommodation looking down on the villa from across the road when he would be hidden from the balcony way in (for a burglar) and indeed,without trying the faulty front door with the dodgy lock first.

I am no expert but what I do know is burglars and thieves usually knock on the door to see if anyone is at home.

According to the hysterical conjecture presented as fact by the fans of Amanda Knox, he just turned up and threw a rock at the window and climbed in!
Beyond belief - to normal people.

Posted by DF2K on 04/19/13 at 08:15 PM | #

I do not understand point 13 - what murder weapon was brought back to RG’s apartment?

Also do not understand why people on the defense side keep referring to RG as a “drifter” when he had lived in that town for many years and had an apartment near RS at the time.  Is that how RS refers to him in his book?  Who characterized him as a drifter?

Posted by believing on 04/19/13 at 08:55 PM | #

I suppose he MIGHT have attacked Meredith on his own but there is indisputable evidence that places both Knox and Sollecito at the crime scene. Meredith´s bra shows undeniable traces of Sollecito´s DNA.

Posted by aethelred23 on 04/19/13 at 10:25 PM | #

Hi believing. That is brmull’s point. I’ll ask.

Below is what Sollecito says about Guede on page 19 - he calls Guede a drifter here. (This reads like he is channeling Nina Burleigh, who speaks no Italian and was full of spite, hardly the most reliable source. Later in the book RS “explains” again and again how Guede did the crime - alone.


The man in the video footage was wearing a black coat with high wing-tip lapels and sneakers with white trim. He had his back to the camera and his head was covered with a woolen cap, making him difficult to identify. But his height, gait, coat, and shoes were all a plausible match for Rudy Guede, a twenty-year-old drifter of Ivorian origin who often shot hoops at the basketball court next to the University for Foreigners and was acquainted with the boys who lived downstairs from Meredith and Amanda.

Guede had an extraordinary past: an abusive childhood; a mother who abandoned him as a baby and a father who abandoned him as a teenager; an improbably idyllic period under the protection of one of Perugia’s richest families, who sent him to private school in a chauffeur-driven limousine; and, more recently, a budding career as a cat burglar. According to eyewitnesses and police reports, Guede liked to break into houses by smashing a window with a rock and using his considerable athletic skills to scale the wall and climb inside. Often, his victims said, he would help himself to food and drink from the kitchen before looting the electronics and hard cash.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/19/13 at 10:35 PM | #

Hi aethelred23.

The evidence from attack itself indicated three and Cassation has accepted that as a fact.

This presentation never released to the public accounted for all Meredith’s wounds and marks in the room which have never been accounted for any other way.

Tellingly, someone was pretty desperate to have that video suppressed.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/19/13 at 10:47 PM | #

I never knew that he was driven to school with a chauffeur.  How strange and sad his childhood was - to go from being so poor, to being part of such a rich lifestyle, and then to be so poor and abandoned again.  He had no stable family life to help him grow up in the right way.  But he threw away a lot of his opportunities too, and in no way do I excuse his behavior with Meredith by that background, because at the minimum he left her to die, and did not call for help, which is a cruelty hard to imagine. 

It seems very odd that the rich family would have adopted him but then totally given up on him later, even if his behavior was difficult.  At the time, he did not seem worse than many of today’s teenagers with their video gaming and dropping out of school and being lazy.  Why adopt him in the first place even if he was a friend of their son’s?  Who was he living with at the time - did his father leave him alone in Italy when he was only a child and how was that even legal?

Posted by believing on 04/20/13 at 04:46 PM | #

In rereading RS book excerpts, I’m struck by how obvious it is that the ghost writer actually put most of the words in his mouth, because so many of the phrases are typically American.  RS would never have used them, as I’m sure he learned British-style English (and his English was obviously very poor when he was interviewed).  Phrases such as ‘a mean-spirited tear’ ‘developed an urge to go’ ‘helped himself from the refrigerator’ and especially ‘I had to stick to my guns’(!) are all ways that Americans speak, and usually only middle-aged Americans and up because the younger generation does not use those phrases.  How old is Mr. Gumble?

Posted by believing on 04/20/13 at 04:53 PM | #

Hi Believing

Much of what Sollecito says about Guede was made up by the malicious self-serving hack Nina Burleigh. We checked and he had no police record at all - unlike Knox or Sollecito (note Sollecito doesnt say that).

The best description of his past life was by Paul Russell who tells us he still sticks by his reporting.

The father of Guede’s friend who provided a home for him came out with some bitter outbursts against Guede but the son and Guede’s friends never did. The father was considered “unreliable” and his opinions were discounted.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/20/13 at 11:44 PM | #


Astutely remarked, believing. My own impression (at a glance) was that his book lacked “voice”—& it’s just this to be looked for in Amanda’s book. Is any of it or much of it truly hers?

Big weekend ahead for Amanda, speaking of books. But it’s all publicity, one sort feeding on another.

More & more I am inclined to Peter’s firmer conviction: This up-coming appeal, with prosecution boosted by Cassation, won’t end in the former result. Evidence, not publicity, will tell in the end. And Italian justice won’t be something to sneeze at.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 04/20/13 at 11:57 PM | #

Anybody see that photo of Merediths hand with the blondish hair wrapped around her fingers? I think the police lost the hair…but the photo is suggestive. That was the hair that morphed into a negroid hair and then into a carpet fiber.


Posted by Bettina on 04/21/13 at 01:44 AM | #

Thanks for that link Peter - I know I read it long ago but somehow didn’t find it when I was checking around your site.  It is a very detailed and clear description of his life and I understand it again. 

The picture is much different than what is painted about him constantly in the media.  His home city in Africa is certainly attractive - not a bunch of rustic huts in the middle of a dried out plain like I sort of imagined.  Now I understand much better about what happened with his father, and it seems like he would have turned out better if he could have just stayed in his poorer neighborhood with the more supportive environment especially from his mother-figure.  The abrupt change to the rich lifestyle and its expectations seems to have messed him up.  I don’t get the impression that he is the brightest guy around, but apparently was shy and quiet and obedient in his younger years. 

Somehow I just can’t get my head around Guede being involved in a violent crime like this.  Burglary yes, some drugs, yes, following someone into trouble, yes.  Apparently involved in petty theft and not sure how much of that was related to drugs or just desperation for money after losing his job.  However if Italy is like the rest of Europe, unemployment benefits for a resident are pretty good.  So I just can’t reconcile my mental picture of Rudy with killing or raping someone, no.  Running away from a crime in fear, yes.  I feel like the whole rape thing was part of the staging.  Yet, he did run away from the scene with blood on his shoes, hands.  He was definitely there.  But what exactly was his role?  Will we ever know?

On the other hand, everyone who knew the younger Boston Marathon bomber was astonished that he could do such a thing, a “nice guy, quiet, cool” etc were the comments of his friends and teachers.  You hear that all the time.  Jodi Arias may have seemed a bit creepy to some people after the fact, but didn’t alarm most people with her behavior and had no trouble getting a new guy interested in making out with her just hours after she killed Travis.  Human nature is a puzzle.

Posted by believing on 04/21/13 at 08:54 PM | #

Hi believing,

Sex offenders come from all walks of life. There is absolutely no doubt that Rudy Guede sexually assaulted Meredith. His DNA was found on a vaginal swab and on Meredith’s bra. That is conclusive evidence.

Like Knox and Sollecito, Guede also lied repeatedly to the police. I don’t think Guede inflicted any of the knife wounds, but he was undoubtedly involved in Meredith’s murder. He doesn’t deserve any sympathy. He is a monster.

Posted by The Machine on 04/21/13 at 10:26 PM | #

Dear Machine,
I will not disagree with you…but, Rudy had a cut on his hand when apprehended. He could have gotten that in a number of ways, of course.
Yes, he is a monster.
A poster suggested if he had indeed jumped of his throne to assist Meredith, would he have time to use toilet paper?? Just one more little thing that does not fit.

Posted by Bettina on 04/22/13 at 01:34 AM | #

What if Rudy’s story is pretty much true?  That he came over to talk to Meredith and they fooled around a little, and then when he went to the toilet, and was daydreaming in there with his music on, RS and AK came over, or were already there when he was there, and started fighting with MK about the missing rent money?  Or else they came to scare her with the knife as kind of a sick joke, and then it turned into a fight?  And then he did try to stop the bleeding but then panicked and ran away, figuring he would be blamed?  I’m not saying that wasn’t monstrous in itself because it was.  I really can’t put any of this into a realistic picture.  I know what the evidence shows, and yet there is something so strange about the whole situation.  Why would he turn into a sick violent monster that night, when he had no history of any kind of violent behavior?  He could have attacked the person at the school with the knife, but he didn’t.  He even tried to explain his theft of the computer at the other house, in a stupid way.  For me the motive is missing.  There isn’t much motive for any of them, which is why it is such a puzzle.  Every time I think about it, I feel like it is impossible that it happened.  But it did.  A crime that violent and cruel had to be motivated by some very strong emotion, some extreme anger.  They had known each other such a very short time, not long enough for this extreme anger or jealousy or desire for revenge to build up.  It’s all so bizarre.

Posted by believing on 04/22/13 at 06:58 AM | #

Guede would have had no reason to pull around Filomena’s clothes and make a mess instead of taking the valuables that were quite visible (including her laptop) and making off asap. He probably had no way of knowing if anyone (or even everyone) would be back anytime soon. If Meredith had indeed walked in on a “burglary in progress” as some like to claim, what exactly had Guede “burgled” by then? All he seems to have done is left some shit in the bathroom and pulled some clothes randomly. If that was all he had done, surely the logical thing for him to do would have been to scamper out noiselessly the same way he came rather than murdering Meredith just to “hide” the fact that he pulled out a few clothes. In other words, if AK and RS had no “motive”, then what exactly is Guede’s motive supposed to be here?

Again, if Meredith had indeed walked in on a “burglary in progress”, why did she go to her room, take out the book from her bag, eat a mushroom etc? If she had already seen Guede, then she would have done none of these and the struggle would have probably begun immediately in the hallway. If she had not seen him, then Guede had ample opportunity to escape.

Regardless of how much we believe what Guede says, the fact remains that someone did try to staunch the flow of blood using towels. It does not make sense to say that Guede was so angry and violent as to inflict 43 wounds on Meredith’s body one minute, and trying to staunch her blood the next. 

In his initial chat (I think) with his friend Guede said that AK was not involved. In the same chat, he also said he was not involved. So either we take both as true or both as false. Which one is it?

What reason would Guede have had to try and delay the discovery of body by locking Meredith’s door, considering that he did not try to either clean up or even run away immediately. He went dancing that night, so are we to assume that he wanted to delay the discovery of body so that he could finish dancing?

Posted by Sara on 04/22/13 at 07:01 AM | #

Hi believing,

It’s indisputable that Guede’s story isn’t true because he kept changing it. I recommend reading the summaries of the Micheli report:

Posted by The Machine on 04/22/13 at 09:35 AM | #

Hi believing.

ZERO possibility Meredith let Guede in or had the slightest interest in him. We have posted very strongly against that supposition in the past because (1) Meredith had a boyfriend of her own and did not play around, (2) she barely knew Guede, (3) she went home because she had a headache from the long night before, and needed to finish some work.

Psychologists tell us there was also no humor in the attack (“sick joke” or “sex game”) and it was an anger spiral all the way, possibly beginning when Patrick emailed “no need to come to work” which may have seemed to Knox that Meredith had already got “her job”.

Meredith could work legally there by the way whereas Knox had no work permit. Other work would be hard to find and if she was snorting cocaine that’s an expensive habit that can deplete bank balances fast and hard to explain if she had to ask for more money from her dad.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/22/13 at 02:39 PM | #

It would be in keeping both with Amanda’s character and also known habits to offer free and easy sex in exchange for (expensive, as Peter says) drugs.
Perhaps there is the scenario that, as Amanda was now an item, for a week, with Solliceto (and we are told he was possessive) that AK ‘offered’ Meredith to Rudy Guede as an alternative? No humour, indeed. Then, with RS’s help, tried to enforce her idea upon Meredith, whereupon the anger and envy spiralled into cruelty and reckless violence.
the possibility of AK exerting control over Meredith, and subjecting and overcoming the latter with her own strong wilfulness would fit with the likely psychological profile of AK. Both control and will would be issues.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/22/13 at 04:51 PM | #

@believing - also, like Peter mentioned earlier, the entire argument + fight would have probably taken around 15 minutes…does it really take that long for anyone to take a dump? And like Bettina said, he had used the toilet paper, and this does not tie in with his story about running out in a panic to assist Meredith. None of Meredith’s friends saw her talking to him and they were with her all the time. And if I am not wrong, he did not even know where she partied, he told it was in a friend’s house or something whereas it was in a club. In all probability, he cooked up the story of Meredith asking him to meet her based on the Halloween photographs he saw in the newspapers, in order to portray himself in a better light. All in all, I would say the scenario constructed in the Massei report seems much more probable and possible to me than Guede’s story. I think his story is a mixture of a few truths and plenty of lies.

Posted by Sara on 04/22/13 at 07:48 PM | #

I do not think that MK invited RG just like that; that is pure BS.

Ak’s drug habits can be easily guessed from her expenses; we still do not know her spending habits for the two weeks.

I also think that 15 mins is too long: the whole game would have been over in less than 5 mins in my opinion.

It was a deal that RG will take the major part of the blame without protesting too much. But I am also not sure when this deal was finally sealed.

But I also believe that RG actually tired to stop the blood flow with towels but then it was only for 10-30 secs before he left.

He obviously does not know her well enough to feel disturbed much. But he knows that he is going to be the main suspect.

You can see that both AK and RS are damn scared of RG!

One thing for sure: drug dealers are good and serious businessmen. No ifs and buts. Model cash and carry system.

Of course we shall never know the truth and even if one of them claims to tell the truth, I will remain sceptical…

Posted by chami on 04/22/13 at 09:05 PM | #

It’s just a personal feeling, but I find it regrettable that the word ‘game’ has been or is used.
Children play games, and, when they are 4 or 5, imagine things and have blurred edges with what is ‘for real’ or not. But they are just testing their boundaries and realities ...learning.
These were adults.
I wonder if someone knows Italian well, could they tell me the full translation for ‘game’ as used in the reports? I wonder if the Italians see this slightly differently ? They tend to be more nurturing and protective to children generally I feel, compared to the Anglo-Saxon cultures. I think they’ve been reasonable towards AK and RS too….perhaps that is part of the problem in fact, - some are so reluctant to even conceive that ‘nice kids’ could possibly have such cruelty within them.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/23/13 at 01:43 AM | #

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