Monday, April 22, 2013

Lawyers Are Puzzled At Why Knox Seems So Intent On Risking Extra Prison Time

Posted by Peter Quennell





Knox doesnt need our legal advice. She has some pretty good lawyers of her own.

So what are they telling her now? The huge risks her book and interview run are all spelled out in the Italian legal code. Accused perps dont ever, ever take their case to the court of public opinion in Italy (try finding another example) because that is a very serious contempt of the court.

Italy’s justice system so favors DEFENDANTS that it is perhaps the most pro-defendant system in the world. In fact many Italians feel its leniency has gone way too far. That is why there are these automatic appeals and why Knox could talk freely in court and have no cross-examination of her claims.

At the same time, officers of the Italian justice system are sheltered by huge powers hardly even needing to be invoked. The reason the law is so strong in this dimension is in part because a favored mafia tactic is to do what Sollecito and Preston and Burleigh have done in their books: slime the officers of the court.

Those powers finally now HAVE been invoked, because of the extraordinary assault on the Italian system and judges and prosecutors and police (rejected even by his dad) by Sollecito in his book.

They are perhaps the strongest and most extensive attacks on the court system Italy has even seen.

This is under confidential investigation in Florence and charges expected this summer could cost Sollecito a sentence of five years or more. His book also just about kills his chances at the new appeal, because it makes several hundred wrong claims which to the prosecution will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

The defense lawyers surely know all of this. Unless they feel their chances at appeal are so bad (which could be the case) that they require desperate long-shot measures, they will surely tell Knox the same thing. 

Publishers’ necks and ghost-writers’ necks and ABC’s necks are on the line too. HarperCollins UK seem to have been very smart in yanking the book. Their lawyers must have figured all this out.




Comments

One reviewer calls Knox’s book “a turkey”. Gobble gobble. Looking at a better book, Barbie Nadeau’s “Angel Face”, Barbie says on p. 87 that she interviewed Joe Tacopina in Rome in the spring of 2008 for “Newsweek”. Joe told Barbie he was acting as a consultant to the family even though he was being paid by ABC. He told Barbie that deep down he wasn’t sure about Amanda’s story.

Said Joe, “Her best defense, I think, is probably going to be the truth. Am I saying she didn’t make mistakes? No. And do I know for a fact that she’s innocent? Of course not.”

Then Andrea Vogt also wrote a story for the Seattle Press-Intelligencer about Tacopina’s behavior in Perugia. Joe Tacopina’s involvement with the case ended and Marriott quickly tried to shut Vogt down.

And get this, “Marriott denied that my interview had even taken place, and told Andrea that ‘the reporter got it wrong’.” p. 88.  But Andrea was not convinced so she asked Barbie for the facts. Barbie gave her a transcript of the interview and a copy of the tape. In other words, Marriott straight out lied about the Tacopina-Nadeau interview but unfortunately for him Barbie had proof of it which Andrea got to see.

“and we began a two-year battle against the Seattle message machine, incurring personal attacks and outright threats.” (Barbie, p. 88)

(Angel Face, p. 89): “The push-back from Seattle was ferocious, but the message discipline was imperfect. When Bremner told CNN that Amanda needed the U.S. State Department to rescue her, Marriott would simply quip, ‘Anne doesn’t speak for the family” or “I don’t keep up with what Anne is doing.”

Moreover, Amanda’s Seattle supporters began to compromise the work of her legal team in Perugia.” Barbie goes on to speak of Judge Heavey who wrote to the Italians on his official Superior Court letterhead a request “to transfer the trial against Amanda Knox out of Perugia”  although he didn’t say where (p. 89).

Well, I guess Heavey got one of his requests, it’s moving to Florence.

Amanda’s book isn’t going to help her, and it’s a contrast in high versus low standards how the decent Italians tried to cover her shame and did not report on all the private details of Amanda’s legally necessitated prison searches or strip searches yet Amanda strips herself bare to sell a book talking about THEIR lewd offenses.

She is still the grotesque exhibitionist she once was. A brass mule. And how can she complain of lewd behavior when she was searching for it and idolizing it the moment she stepped into Perugia? It’s fine with her so long as she’s the one initiating the lewd and insulting behavior to break norms. Even now she says in her book that Meredith was more “demure” than she could ever be. It’s Meredith’s behavior society should emulate, not Knox’s nor her lying PR clowns.

Joe Tacopina is a legal analyst and a lawyer from New York. He saw the truth.

Posted by Hopeful on 04/22/13 at 05:24 PM | #

If Amanda has said nothing in her book that she would be unwilling to repeat in court, what’s the difficulty?  She is setting forth her case, giving her reasons, making her defense.

As for Sollecito’s father backing off a key claim, I am more inclined to believe Raffaele whose very title (Honor Bound) implies his refusal to throw Amanda under the bus or to tell everything he knows. The further implication of that title is that of course he would throw her under the bus if opportunity offers as a reliable way out.

Two weeks from now we’ll know at last just what the coming weekend (& just after) may bring. I expect a burst of publicity.  Are things now underway to be cancelled last minute?

Curt Knox once said that his decision to hire a public relations firm was the smartest thing he’d done in this connection & for a fact, Amanda has been “home” for sometime now.  Harper’s is looking for killing. Given People Magazine, The Daily Mail, Ms Sawyer’s (taped) interview—the time is ripe.

Only final question, then, is whether a great burst of such publicity will once again carry everything before it?  Most of us here—& I join Peter in this—are hoping otherwise.

Understood that I am asking for the verdict. As for more jail time, far more problematic & maybe none.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 04/22/13 at 05:55 PM | #

A review of Knox’s book is the Leading Item in The Arts section of today’s The New York Times.

It s Reviewer seems ambivalent, IMO; but is also misleading, as in “Just last month Italy’s highest court ordered a new trial….”

Misled? This reader cannot decide.

Posted by Cardiol MD on 04/23/13 at 12:55 AM | #

Hi Ernest

I guess you haven’t yet read Sollecitos book where in subtle ways he DOES throw Knox under the bus. Again and again he says there is no evidence against himself and that he could have got off in a few words while Knox is in a much deeper fix.

In fact maybe the betrayal isnt even so very subtle. Correctly understood, it is right there in the title of the book: he has to cover for her or she’s toast. The title is not the noble thing you think it is, it is really a sort of threat and undermining of Knox.

*******

You ask what is the difficulty in not observing Italian law. Well it is the Italian law so the difficulty comes in it not being observed. If not observed here are three problems that arise.

First, Italian trials are meant to be held in the courts where it is juries not the public that decides. Italy has sound reasons for this, one of which is to stop mafia leaning on juries, and it is far from the only country that wants trials to stay in the courts - most in Europe do the same.

Defendants in Italy get plenty of breaks and dont need richer perps who can afford a misleading PR megaphone to tell the whole world “their side” and have the public lean on the court. By the way perps telling the whole world “their side” is not much liked in the US either and Jodi Arias for example is probably regretting she hit the TV.

The victim of course has no PR and no megaphone and it is hard enough to get their voice heard anywhere, and especially in pro-defendant Italy, even without their voice having to go up against a rabble-rousing PR megaphone.

Second, there are problems in the still-accused making huge swathes of blood money while their legal process is still going on.  I presume even you might see a problem there. In the case of Knox the book advance was very big and who knows to what purposes the money is being applied? We already know the first appeal was bent; how will the new blood money be applied?

Third and most serious, there is the question of the false accusation of crimes of court officials. This is seriously not liked and heavy protections apply. Perps do this at their great peril. When you read Sollecitos book you will see that he falsely accused many officials of crimes. There is nothing unique to Italy in making this a crime, you cannot do this in the US either. Search to see if you can find any accusations of crimes against judges and prosecutors in the US which remotely resemble the ferocity of the family campaigns toward those in Italy.

It is already said that Knox claims in the book that she was interrogated for hours and hours and abused. Her own lawyers have said she was not. She is already charged with calunnia for this, and contempt of court charges will take the charges to a far more serious level. If you have some sneaking sympathy for Knox - and those who think she is seriously mentally astray often do - it seems to me you should hope the book and the interview are made to drop dead. Also for final justice for Meredith.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/23/13 at 02:37 AM | #

@Ernest:

I would add to the above, your theory of Knox repeating any of this in court is just that - a theory.  She made a lot of effort to avoid properly testifying in her first trial, and early indications are that she is not bothered about showing up at the next appeal.

Thus far, she has also failed to make any kind of formal complaints that would substantiate any of these allegations put forward from the book. 

And we are also supposed to believe that a prison official may be guilty of sexual-related misconduct, but Knox doesn’t doesn’t think it’s important to go to Italy and assist in testifying/helping an investigation that might take this (alleged) dangerous person off the streets.

Posted by Rocket Queen on 04/23/13 at 02:57 AM | #

Hello,

Thanks, Hopeful, for the info on Joe Tacopino. I think his comments speak volumes about Knox’s GUILT, considering some of the “clients” he has represented.

I am still outraged that Knox was paid $4 Million for this book.

And I am further outraged that Knox can profit off the murder of Meredith. 

I feel so sorry for Meredith’s Family having to deal with this!

I hope her “fairy tale” is a flop, and I cannot wait to hear what the investigators in Italy have to say about Knox’s book.

Thanks again to all of you in your efforts for True Justice for Meredith Kercher!

Posted by MissMarple on 04/23/13 at 09:09 AM | #

It’s interesting that, here in the UK last week, The Times ran a short article describing the forthcoming AK book. The Times is under News International, which is also the parent company of HarperCollins.

The article neglected to mention that the book had been withdrawn in the UK, or why. However, on-line comments were left that corrected this, as well as directions to here.

Result: thanks from some commentators for the link, and only 2 comments out of all of them propagating the PR - AK line.

The rest were distinctly sceptical. This is in contrast to a similar article,perhaps 10 days previously, where the bulk of the comments were supportive of AK/RS as victims.

I believe this is indicative. Here in England we are feeling sensitive and bruised about misinformation from PR campaigns, and the huge amount of monies involved, and the malign effects of such practices - we have just had the Leveson enquiry, and it’s not over yet.

In short, people, especially people with a moral compass, do not like being lied to,- and are, rightly I feel, unforgiving when such is proved to have happened.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/23/13 at 11:37 AM | #

Hi SeekingUnderstanding.

Especially interesting that you talk about the Times. Two of the best reporters on the case, John Follain and Richard Owen, write for the Times and Sunday Times (owned by News Corp) and in early days, especially during trial, they were invaluable and we quoted them a lot.

Other UK newspapers often go where the Times goes and so there was a sort of calming and truth-seeking affect on other UK papers. The one constant exception then was the Independent. If you use our search function for “Peter Popham” you will see that he really was an angry outlier, until he got transferred out of Rome.

In 2010 the Times and Sunday Times were put behind for-pay firewalls and Google News stopped searching and linking their reports and they became much less read and much less influential. The other UK newspapers have since been all over the map. The semi-quality papers Guardian and Independent seem the strongest Knox apologists and Italy-bashers, the other papers less-so and the Sun (another News Corp paper) really not at all. The Daily Mail has a fascination these days with Knox without especially going overboard in her support.

If you use our “In Memory” link near the top of the right column you can see all of John Kercher’s own articles in UK dailies. The BBC and ITV and Sky have on the whole been good and the BBC website did a lot of good research before posting this important story:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/bbc_interview_mignini_comes_across_as_fair_decent_funny_and_quite_sane/

That was after the Lord of the Flies pack that supports Knox had met at a fundraiser in Seattle where their baying for Italian blood hit a real crescendo.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/23/13 at 01:23 PM | #

Thank you Peter.
I absolutely never bother with either the Guardian or the Independent for anything.
They have both changed out of all recognition from the papers they used to be many years ago.
The on-line comments on The Times are usually (mostly) of a high standard - I think the pay-wall helps with this.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/23/13 at 03:59 PM | #

The writing of a “memoir” in the midst of criminal proceedings is a mistake of epic proportions.  Even idiots understand this, though sometimes only after the fact. That’s why Knox isn’t the only one hoping to skip out on the upcoming proceedings in Florence:

http://www.mattinonline.ch/sollecito-un-magistrato-italiano-non-ha-detto-tutta-la-verita-per-ottenere-il-permesso/

Posted by Fly By Night on 04/23/13 at 05:11 PM | #

Peter, you wrote: “She has some pretty good lawyers of her own.  So what are they telling her now?”

But as you also wrote: “Accused perps don’t ever, ever take their case to the court of public opinion in Italy.”

So I’d say, from that, that she is being badly advised.  She may well think that public outcry over injustice will see her released.  That’s not going to happen and the momentum is far more in favour of the facts being examined.

Whether they think they’ll risk all on one roll of the dice, I don’t know.  Perhaps they realize the case is now so strong that this is the only way.

Posted by James Higham on 04/23/13 at 06:42 PM | #

It disgusts me to see Knox parading herself on the TV with Diane Sawyer. Remember, Diane Sawyer also helped Richard Nixon rehabilitate himself, after resigning in disgrace from the Presidency. Nixon was probably the most corrupt American politician of the 20th century, and possibly also a psychopath. It sort of brings Ms. Sawyer full-circle, shall we say? Although Sawyer’s tell-all memoir might be interesting reading someday. I’ll wait for that, and skip Knox’s.

Posted by Earthling on 04/23/13 at 09:35 PM | #

It gets worse. Knox’s Italian lawyers will confirm that Sollecito and Knox could be charged under full anti Mafia measures. So could Nina Burleigh and Doug Preston - his colleague Mario Spezi has known Mafia links and already faces prison under the reinstatated Narducci case.

The reason is that Mignini is now not only very senior (first in line to be the next Prosecutor General of Perugia and Umbria), he has special anti-Mafia protections as a Mafia prosecutor which go even beyond anything mentioned in the post. So do some other justice officials that were slimed.

The full prison term can be 10 years or more. Knox and Sollecito could be sentenced to 30 years to life (their chances of that worsen if they stupidly choose to no-show at the appeal) for Meredith’s murder PLUS another ten years for the two books and Diane Sawyer interview. Total say 40 years in prison. 

Even Diane Sawyer could become a target if she facilitates any criminal libel. Even everyone involved in the book’s production. It never hurts to know what the law is.

What about Robert Barnett and Ted Simon and David Marriott? Could they be asleep at the wheel too? Sued by Knox for malpractice for not warning her?

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/23/13 at 10:47 PM | #

And for Knox it gets even worse.

Knox is a convicted felon who already served a full term in prison for criminal lying.

If her book and interview amount to more criminal lying, she could be hit even harder for repeating the same crime.

This really is a slow-motion train-wreck.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/23/13 at 11:22 PM | #

Remember Dershowitz who describes three different legal systems (ours evidently not quite identical with English common law although no doubt similar, the Italian derived from Roman law.)

Knox people have already hinted at (I think) double indemnity, if I have that term right, namely, that you can’t be summoned back after a court has once found you innocent.  Hence Dershowitz’s further point about a civil suit & the preponderance of evidence.

The Knox clan would pit the American “System” against the Italian & expect real support.  And I have the impression, by the way, that Knox began her book when assuming herself in the clear, hence in no danger of violation.

About her book: I see it being launched with fanfare & selling well because of that, at first, but I would never assume that it will have a lasting success.  The Sunday NY Times review (thanks for the reference) finds Knox’s book overlong & tedious even while crediting her with a genuine power of expression, capable of moving sentiment (my own choice of words.)

“Some sneaking sympathy for Knox,” Peter? Yes & no. The real issue for me: I don’t believe in long imprisonments, period. I do believe in the death sentence when called for. Those who are not fit to be released should be disposed of & their organs harvested, if usable.

The sheer evil & brutality of Meredith’s piteous rape & murder—that’s what has branded me & locks me into my views. Unforgivable, as such. But do Knox & Sollecito deserve the death sentence? They deserve to be known henceforth for what they have done. That would be incentive for a life of self-redemption.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 04/23/13 at 11:30 PM | #

It is said that psychopathic personalities are utterly undeterred by any threat of punishment - are without what is called a ‘fear pathway’. Iin the more normal brain, fear of consequences alerts… a message Be Very Afraid inhibits.

Hence they can be cool and collected in the midst of enormous danger and risk, immune to the cautions that would normally operate.  Well, publishing like this is certainly blithely ignoring all the logic available.

Another factor at play, psychologically speaking, could be a very damaged narcissist who is identifying with her projected image of herself (innocent, wronged by others, admirable, special, attractive) to such an extent, desperately, obsessively - that it’s as if declaring what she would hope to be, often enough, might actually make it true. The alternative being unbearable.

I think others have commented on this, in other ways, too.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/23/13 at 11:50 PM | #

With regard to the comment by Ernest Werner, above, I think it is essential that the instigator of such unconscionable cruelty be apprehended, and it be made known, with clarity.

According to latest research on the neurological, and biological/genetic factors, certain types of violent people without ‘empathy circuits’ would be incapable of reform, I.e. repentance. They might be able to learn that they mustn’t do things. But there would still be dangers of the temperament erupting again.
That’s one reason why true justice matters so much. Lies do matter…so does truth.

For example - I have worked with mothers and new infants - the time just after birth would constitute an at risk period.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/24/13 at 12:11 AM | #

On Ernest’s point about possible Knox bandwagon attempts to co-opt the American legal and political systems.

We post repeatedly against this delusional pie-in-the-sky stuff. System manipulation hasnt exactly got the Knoxaholics very far so far.

1) Released State Department cables showed that the trial was a fair one and Knox was given all normal breaks. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton didnt get involved. Nor did the Ambassador.

2) No complaints by Knox were ever issued from prison, not to her lawyers, not even to the MP Rocco Girlanda who visited her 20 times PRECISELY FOR THIS PURPOSE. Again, the State Department passed on any involvement.

3) Senator Maria Cantwell chilled on Knox once her staff found out there really is a verry strong case against her.

4) Congressman David Wu who strongly supported Knox had to leave office when he had a nervous breakdown.

5) Ex Judge Heaevy was reprimanded for writing to the President of the Italian Republic in support of Knox, and did not chosse to run for re-election.

6) We have posted numerous times on how Italy and the US almost daily extradite one anothers citizens when charged with crimes.

7) And our lawyer James Raper posted that there is no legal foundation for the US to refuse to send Knox back.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/correcting_media_misapprehensions_1_in_fact_knox_extradition/

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/24/13 at 12:18 AM | #

I think they are on the ropes backed into a corner now - by Harper Collins.
The apparent huge debts Knox has bestowed on her family (although a lot of her people maintain they are working ‘pro bono’ for her [yeah sure]) need paying.

A person like Knox (whom I believe plunged a kitchen knife into the neck of her “friend” and room mate Meredith), would in the blink of an eye have no hesitation when she was home free of making money out of the tragic death of Meredith Kercher - except this obscene clamour for money could ultimately lead to her undoing.

One thing is clear, they did think they was home free and the annulment of the acquittal came as a shock to them.

Some people really do think they are above the law.

It would be fair to say that Knox’s legal representation pictured above will do all they can to assist her but their counsel regarding the ill timed tome in all probability is falling on deaf ears now.
The contract has been signed, Knox has her obligations to meet and the book will be published on time as was trumpeted well before the annulment.

Harper Collins don’t care about Knox or what happens to her, they are in the business to make money.
The are some very big chickens coming home to roost for Amanda Knox and her family, that is for sure.

Posted by DF2K on 04/24/13 at 12:26 AM | #

I do thank the responders, above—Peter & DF2K & SeekingUnderstanding (& others elsewhere.) Remarks on psychology & pathology are most welcome & always of interest to me.

Amanda & Raffaele certainly acted like psychopaths—that night. Question is how deep it goes. I think Amanda’s obsession with rape may be revealing—of something that has never come to light. She is damaged, that’s for sure.

Her personality insofar as we currently know it may suggest an early severe trauma arising from sexual abuse.  This is of course a mere Hypothesis & in no sense an allegation of “fact.”  What the real facts are we do not know.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 04/24/13 at 02:33 AM | #

Let her go forth and tell her best truth. It will be the rope that hangs her.
Somebody made the observation that Amanda is not able to read emotions, something I think she has in common with the italian blogger.
Bettina

PS..thanks TJMK

Rest well Meredith.

Posted by Bettina on 04/24/13 at 03:25 AM | #

I will certainly not be buying or reading her offering but from the reviews I have read so far there is a high sexual aspect to her ‘harrowing’ ordeal.

The reviews so far have not mentioned any physical abuse or attacks(of the violent type)or any verbal abuse, mental cruelty, threats or intimidation that one would imagine are common in prisons.

Instead what we have is wholesale sexual assault (being grabbed round the waste from behind),and sexual harassment from just about everyone in the prison system whom Knox came into contact with, from the tea lady up to senior officers both male and female - not to mention her genital examination which I believe is standard procedure for anyone entering prison, male or female - and which Knox seems to think she should be excluded from.

We should never forget the rape fantasy she posted on social media and that this terrible murder was a sex crime.

It seems just about everyone be they male or female wants to have sex with Amanda Knox because she (in her mind)is so pretty.

These scribblings of hers and her ghostwriter are an insight of what goes on in her mind and I think will be a massive own goal on her part.

Posted by DF2K on 04/24/13 at 03:58 AM | #

Will not buy her book either, as I think she is guilty. At the end of the day, I come back again and again to the changing stories. An innocent person doesn’t change their story so very many times. Thanks for this detailed and excellent site. Some of us in the U.S. do not think Amanda is innocent.

Posted by aj1880 on 04/24/13 at 06:34 AM | #

Also, I think the reason why Sollecito doesn’t rat out Knox is because he is guilty too. To me, it’s far more simple than it seems. Raffaelle zips his lip b/c if he speaks against Amanda, then Amanda speaks against him. Pure and simple.

Posted by aj1880 on 04/24/13 at 06:37 AM | #

I agree with the sentiments expressed that, tragically, the bare facts- as well as the motive(s) - are probably fairly simple and straightforward.

One of my deep concerns is that a killing - however initially unintended- could be a recurrence.

In fact, it is the unintended, uncontrollable element that is frightening. I would certainly never leave a child nor vulnerable elder in any of these defendants’ care…regardless of eventual verdict.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/24/13 at 11:31 AM | #

Unbelievable and sick!

http://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/cronaca/articoli/1092097/amanda-ballavo-sulla-scena-del-delitto-.shtml

Posted by Miriam on 04/24/13 at 07:36 PM | #

For Knox this is looking worse and worse. We now hear she could be slapped with a warrant for her immediate arrest.

This is based on early excerpts of her book already falsely accusing Italian officials of crimes, with apparently a lot more of the same to come. The sticky Sollecito book aftermath, part deux.

If she runs from the law and is a no-show at the appeal, it gets even worse. How chances of being found not guilty drop to the floor, and the chances of Sollecito ratting on her rise to the roof.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/24/13 at 11:45 PM | #

Pete,

if Knox IS slapped with such a warrant, how do you think Knox and Diane Sawyer will deal with it?

Posted by Cardiol MD on 04/25/13 at 02:05 AM | #

Hi Cardiol

She’s the client and is meant to think and to manage her own defense in the way that sets her up for the best in the long term. All the others are in it for the money, but she is in it for her life.

This isnt rocket science. Every lawyer in Italy knows the code. The action against Sollecito for his book was widely reported in Italy, even though no US media except TJMK picked it up here.

The book and the interview are painting her into a corner from which there is no escape. 

Knox’s only good shot seems to me to be to dump the book and the interview right now, and to arrive in Italy on time to confront SOLLECITO at the appeal as much as the prosecution. 

Otherwise she will lose on all fronts for sure and could be facing 40 years.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/25/13 at 03:04 AM | #

Doubtful - too much publicity already.  Time will tell how this all plays out.

Posted by believing on 04/25/13 at 06:02 AM | #

Hello,

HLN’s Showbiz tonight had a segment on Knox’s upcoming book and her interview with People Magazine.

I changed the channel immediately when I heard the opening statement from the host because I just cannot watch the biased U.S. media “drool” over Knox.

The publicity about Knox’s book no doubt will increase in the next week because of her “book” and interview with Sawyer.

But Knox will have lots of competition with the Jodi Arias Trial here in the U.S.: 

The last day of testimony in Arias Trial per the Judge is scheduled for May 1 and Closing Arguments for May 2-3.

Thank You.

Posted by MissMarple on 04/25/13 at 06:22 AM | #

Thank God we don’t have to have the book out here (UK).

It is not very good for the image and reputation of USA abroad…I wonder how many have thought of that?

We already tend to feel you’re nuts about the gun violence….and other things give the impression that you’re becoming more insular as a nation, too.

Another reason to be grateful for this site.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/25/13 at 10:24 AM | #

Just read Bruce Fischer’s latest rant bad-mouthing Lumumba - GREED - mind you!! Another thing that always fascinates me is how readily the FOA all accept that the DNA evidence incriminating Guede was perfect but everything else was shoddy. Come on. Who reads and believes this stuff ?

Posted by shavournia on 04/25/13 at 10:42 AM | #

@shavournia

Who Bruce Fischer may be I don’t know but bad-mouthing Lumumba, the victim of Amanda’s false accusation?  Verges on the incredible.

Not only did Lumumba bear the trauma of his jailing & his young family also (infant & young Russian wife) but additionally he lost his business in the process.

Neither Amanda nor her mother (shame!) raised a peep to have him released, yet Amanda knew of her falsehood all along & her mother had learned of it. Both were (therefore) waiting to see if the accusation would stick—& what a lucky way out if it had!

Here’s Deuteronomy (chapter 19, in part):
“Behold, if the witness be a false witness & hath testified falsely against his brother, then shall ye do unto him as he had thought to have done unto his brother…  And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”

I have always regarded Amanda’s false accusation to which she has herself confessed as evidence of her guilt—her horrid crime.

@believing (above): You are right.  Too much publicity already to stop things moving forward. Only time will tell & maybe none too quickly.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 04/25/13 at 02:17 PM | #

@Peter

“For Knox this is looking worse and worse. We now hear she could be slapped with a warrant for her immediate arrest.”

In the US??

Posted by thundering on 04/25/13 at 02:55 PM | #

Bruce Fischer is a nobody.
I’m kicking myself that I am actually mentioning his name.

I have no intention to read his blog although someone on PMF commented that he has written a large piece sliming Lumumba and failed to state that it was Amanda Knox who was directly responsible for having him put in prison when she accused him of the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher.
These are very serious accusations and indeed. Knox has been convicted of calumny and is now a convicted criminal and served a 3 year prison term as a result.
Instead Fischer stated it was the authorities that accused him and put him in jail.
Speaks for itself really.

Fischer and his ilk are in their death throws and they know it - yet all they can do is rehash the same old drivel and put out the same old misinformation as they have always done, lies are all they have to offer.

It remains to be seen what the Perugian authorities will make of Knox’s book but we can see glaring irregularities already just from the reviews, as SA pointed out she couldn’t remember in court but states in her book about the “Ta dah!” she performed whilst putting on overshoes when accompanied by a murder squad detective.
(it was actually first reported as a swivelling of the hips and an “oop lah!”)

Another glaringly obvious one is she couldn’t remember who “cuffed” her on the back of the head but in her book names and shames Rita Facarra and
this point will be interesting.
Excuse my spelling if I have her name wrong.

Give ‘em enough rope…

Posted by DF2K on 04/25/13 at 04:48 PM | #

Always and always.
The further anyone (Subhuman slime Bruce Fischer et al) is backed into a corner the more shrill and outlandish they will be. Don’t be surprised if Knox claims memory loss, self defense, little green men/ninjas, or the tried and true Mormon conspiracy. In other words the Arias defense

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 04/25/13 at 05:43 PM | #

Thundering:

“For Knox this is looking worse and worse. We now hear she could be slapped with a warrant for her immediate arrest.”  In the US??

No, in Italy.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/25/13 at 06:14 PM | #

Dear Seeking,

Sorry, but I cannot resist this little comment. I know you may disagree with the American constitutional protection of the right to bear arms.  However, that comes from our tradition and from a recognition that the presence of personal firearms made it possible to kick the Brits out of America in 1781.  Just ask Lord Cornwallis.

Oh, and every American kid learns that the reason we won the Revolutionary War is because the Brits had this habit of lining up in the open in nice, red uniforms while the Americans shot at them from behind rocks and trees. 

Cheerio !

Posted by Gonzaga on 04/26/13 at 02:42 AM | #

BTW thanks for the link above to the Kercher’s fund - just noticed it, and I have contributed a little towards their continued travel and legal expenses, and hope others can do so.

Posted by believing on 04/26/13 at 02:56 AM | #

Dear Gonzaga

I don’t agree or disagree about arms…it’s not for me to do so. I’m all for respecting freedoms and individuality.

I’m just allergic to violence, it upsets me so much it makes me unable to do anything. I dream of a better society, but am as puzzled as anyone as to how to reach it.

I have studied psychology, and am also a pragmatic person. I just wish guns or other lethal weapons were not easily available to irresponsible, mentally unstable, damaged and cruel people with zero empathy.

It’s a tall order of course, but one could start somewhere…

In the same vein, I would like to see much stricter control of drugs, especially ones that can trigger latent states of cruel violence, paranoia and psychoses.

Every time I visit this site, I catch a breath when I see lovely Meredith’s face, so full of hope and promise. She’ll never be back. So deeply wrong.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/26/13 at 03:21 AM | #

“Seeking understanding” is indeed what we’ve all been doing these four-plus years (that, and countering the FOA spin and media ignorance).

A small spark of electricity is what starts our hearts beating, the rest of our brain and bodily functioning is chemical. Our thoughts and memories are chemically etched into the grey matter. Trauma etches it more deeply, which is why, 20 years on, we can still shiver or blush at the recounting of a harrowing or shameful memory. The pharmaceutical industry (lifesaving miracle drugs aside) thrives because of the promise of better living through chemistry. When we speak, psychologically, of how an individual is “wired” to behave, we really mean to talk about chemistry (hormones, for example). LSD, in its early studies, was meant to help patients with psychological disorders, but the trials went off the rails when it became a recreational drug. Indigenous peoples of many cultures ritually use psychoactive substances to experience their god. We “westerners” pervert that into “fun”.

We all arrive in the world with a built-in protective programming for fight or flight (adrenaline release, in the face of danger). Excess adrenaline in the absence of an actual physical threat could end up being mis-spent as violence. As much as I dislike Knox, I have to imagine that whatever additional chemicals she was introducing to her system were the factor that pushed her own natural narcissistic/sociopathic tendencies into kill mode that night. When she came down (rapidly, I assume) from the climax of defeating her foe, any remorse she may have felt would, through the necessity of self-preservation, have been neatly shoved to the back of her brain.

Some people get high for fun. Others need drugs merely to maintain equilibrium.The saddest cases have to get high to mute their psychic pain.  One of Knox’s friends at UW was quoted as saying she didn’t just drink, she had to get VERY drunk. I wonder how sober she has stayed since arriving home? A friend of mine saw her at a bar several weeks ago. Perhaps she was only there to flirt with the male patrons. No, wait—it was a gay bar.

Posted by mimi on 04/26/13 at 11:26 PM | #

Thanks mimi. I’m grateful to everyone who has contributed to this site. I have found it recently; am in England (where we have been less exposed to this awful, preposterous PR machine).

Alcohol does so much damage, not least in the brain.

I think it is right about the drug as trigger : I mention elsewhere that degrees of narcissism are not set in stone, and (tragically) someone who habitually was, say, a level 3 narcissist could be pulled down to the most severe level, level 5, of psychopathic narcissism by the reckless use of drugs.

There is some very interesting research currently undertaken in Cambridge (UK), led by Simon Baron-Cohen. I have been re-reading his recent book titled ‘Zero degrees of Empathy : a new theory of human cruelty’.

He is researching 10 different areas in the brain that together make what he terms ‘the empathy circuit’. There are hormones and chemicals related to these areas, and some are at enhanced levels and some at lower levels (e.g. Oxytocin ) in persons with lower neural activity on the ‘empathy circuit’. (I am summarising, it is necessarily complex).

There are some indications that in the opposite type of individual with high empathy, these levels are inverse.

Connected to this zero empathy state is lack of emotion recognition - inability to read fear or other emotion on someone’s face, and crucially, to respond to it, appropriately.

There is also the possibility that because of the low activity in these regions, the person is constantly seeking stimulation - hence one reason for the high level of drug and alcohol use/abuse. And vice versa, again.

There’s so much in this book I’ve found useful in understanding, and this direction of further understanding the brain and genetics does seem the way forward.

Perhaps one day not too distant, a suspect under arrest may have their ‘brain profile’ read, and then opinions will be less subjective and/or speculative. (I’m not criticising anyone here! It seems everyone is trying very much to be fair).

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/27/13 at 02:58 AM | #

Hi SeekingUnderstanding

This is certainly an amazing time for brain science with all the new insights flowing out. Here in the US the serious late-night interviewer on public TV Charlie Rose has attracted to his table every brain scientist within reach and the result is a “state of the art” ongoing seminar which already amounts to some hours of TV. It is all on YouTube if it interests you.

We’ve brushed the surface of psychopathy in some posts and some psychologists doing long-distance research have been in touch. I believe the sociopthic checklist is helpful (AK and RS both score high) but wasnt sure about the long distance approach before this post on Anders Berivek and the convincing analysis an Israeli shrink had done on him.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/in_trial_for_killing_of_77_norway_very_complexed_about_whether_admitte/

https://sites.google.com/site/avner1943/norwegian-tragedy

On drugs try searching the comments on the site here for “skunk”. This as you may know is genetically engineered weed and it has caused some psychotic episodes and a certain number of deaths. Cocaine can do the same; Knox had a cocaine dealers number in her phone and the police believe that on the night they used cocaine.

Many readers are not convinced there is any mitigating factor in this and if drugs are taken and there’s a horrific crime a full prison term should still be served.

One reason the US Embassy may be less than rosy about Knox is they have a policy never to move forcefully to intervene for US citizens accused of a crime if any drugs were involved, as was claimed by the perps themselves here.

On books the Machine recommends reading Pinker’s “Blank Slate” which also talks of zero degrees of empathy being born into some people for which we all pay.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/27/13 at 03:30 AM | #

Thankyou Peter.

I agree about the use of drugs not being regarded as a mitigating factor.
In fact, if anything it makes it all worse, and more irresponsible that students such as AK and RS should be indulging in this way, as they must have known. The risks re ‘skunk’ are common knowledge here.

Neurology and neuroscience is certainly coming on in leaps and bounds at present. The cross linking between disciplines is exciting too, I think, for knowledge.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 04/27/13 at 04:27 AM | #


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